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FROM THE LIBRARY OF
REV. LOUIS FITZGERALD BENSON. D. D.
BEQUEATHED BY HIM TO
THE LIBRARY OF
PRINCETON THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY
i
^(rij. J)am-C4
CONTINUATION
O F T H E
Friendly Debate^
By the fame K\xtkov.2)'9U,'^'
rov. I4."i<5. lA wife man fiareth and iifarteth from evil,
tut tbejoal ra^eth and is confident.
^:»
oftdotj, Printed for R. Royfton, Bookfeller to
ic King's moft Excellent Majeftyjiddp.
Digitized by the Internet Archive
in 2013
http://archive.org/details/contoffrOOpatr
To the Readers.
I Shall only detain you fo long as to tell jou
a fevp things that concern the Motives to
this Work, and the Author of it. For the
former , take it from me (who know better than
iny body elfe) they are none but the ^Authors
love to 'truth and Peace ; and his Charity to
well-meaning and abufed people. Think what
ou pleafe ; / am fure he is not naturally [ovar a
n quarrelfome y much lefs angry with any man
meerly becaufe he differs from him. He hath
"jot been exafperated by contending, nor put out
f humour by fierce difputings ; for he hath no
Difference with any man living ; he neither
'Oves Divifons , nor lives by them. He hath
ts much refpeB alfo and regard at he dejires :
^0 much as may fe cure him from the temptation
f envying , and the mean arts of fee king to
rain a reputation to himfelf by difpar aging o-
her men, jis for hopes of preferment i which
hne havefaid are his end , hefides that heftu-
iioufly conceAles himfdf , I declare y that if he
Jt Z wsrt
To the Readers,'
were capalle or defirousof it, he would not he
at fo much pains tofeek it, 'jtnd as hefeeks
not to gain any worldly thing hereafter by his
writing , fo he lofes nothing at prefent by that
which he writes againfl. For neither he, nor
any of his friends {that he knows of) receive the
leji prejudice by any mans Non-conformity , or
feparated ^SWeeiings ; andfohejhouldnothave
taken any notice of them , if Religion had not
been concern d» But he is very fen f hie that this
fuffers very much ; and that which many Mini-
fters who keepfeparatcd jiffemhlieSy' cannot con-
demn y is condemned , nay defpifed , by thofe
that follow them. For there is undoubted evi-
dence that their not coming to the Common-pray-
ers , and not declaring plainly the true reafon
of it, makes mahyflofid aloof of, and abhor our
Service, as if it were the Mafs, The people are.
feldom at leifure to ex^amine the Reafon of
things , nor apt to put themf elves upon that
work without much urging : but they are always]^
ready to follow the example of thofe whom they
admire , and the lejs they knovp why^ the more
forward they are to out-do the Copy they chufe to
imitate. So that the ^iinifters not doing
what they can in compliance with the efiablifh'd
vrd^r , and not declaring fwcerely the caufes
why
To the Readers?
vphytheydonoty is interpreted to a farther ah-
horrenccy than they {if they durfifpeak out) ara
willing to ojvn. When they do hut fignifie their
difguji y and that their pallate is not pleafed ;
their follojvers are naufeated prefently , and
their fiomacks turnd. If they make an halt, or
a (lep hack ; thofe get the hit between their
teeth : they kick and fling and run away. Now
though this bogling and fiarting may he looki
upon by many credulous and well meaning peo^
pie, as the effeB of a commendable caution y or
a quick fenfe and perception of an approaching
mt [chief y and of an exaBer difference they
make between good and evil, than others do ;
yet experience tells u^ the contrary, that the.
more ordinary caufe is defeB of eye-fight and
corifufed apprehenfions of things, Ignorance and
humour, if not reflivenefi and Jadifh tricks. For
to give but one palpable in fiance of this among
many ; have you not ohferved at the^uneral of a
Friend when a Sermon has beenpreacht, hew
apart of the company , as fnon as they come to->
ward the Church door , prefently draw off and
Ceparate from the reft , as if they were going
about fame Idolatrous fervice ? Would not a
(iranger think that fame noifomc and offenfivs
vapour or fiiflingfmoak afiended from our De-
Jl 3 votioni,
To the Readers"
'Vottons , which made thefe men fojhte to enterl
till hy thefinging of a Pfalm they had notice gi-
ven that the air was clear and fit to heath in,
and then it may he they came in i But when
lyes the offence all this while , if we may he wor-
thy to under fi and it ? Is it in the white garment
wherein the ^Unifier officiates? But why, i
pray, is this more trouhlefome (unlefs to thi
Tricks I [poke of) than a black one ? There is
nothing frightful fure in three fentences of Scrip-
ture, in reading aP[a\m of Dawid, or a leffon
of St, Paul ; andyet this is all, fave the Glo-
ria Patri at the end of the Pfalm , which one
would think might efcape with fair quarter , ef-
pecially now that their purfuit feems to be fo
hot after the fre(h game of Socinianifme.
know there are feme fober perfons who diffent
from us, that are not thus skittijh ; and finding
them humble, mode ft and not cenf or ions , I not
only love but honour them with all my heart.
There are others alfo , who from the womb have
been taught to ft art afide and to abhor our fer-
vice ; and being unable to reafon and uncapahU
cf better information, Ipitty them very much.
Let them but be quiet and not feek to govern
us by their fancies and prejudices, and I for my
part (halt not look upon their averpon as a vice,
if
To the Readers.
fthcy mil not account it their great Ver-
ne, For vrhat if fome Children receive im-
ireffons and inclinations in their infancy from
their Mothers hig-hetlied frights or longings,
rrhich they carry with them to their graves t
What is the World concern d in this, or in thofe
mens unaccountable Antipathies ? Is any man
more commendable/(?r them ? Surely no ; but
oftentimes more tiouhlcCovnc. Tou have feen
it's likely a perfon {pardon the infiance lufe,
becaufe it's familiar ) as foon Of the Cheefe af-
ter Meal has been fet on the board, prefently
make [curvy faces and change colour, flop hit
tiofe, or run in hasl out of the room ; yet neither
the Mafler orguefls are farther concern d in
this, than topitty, or perhaps but fmilc or
(lightly complement the mans infirmity 'y and
tione forbears the more to tafl that hath a needt
or a good likij-7g. But you never h cardie f any
fuch man who, in a conceited humour, thought
fit in this cafe, that his particular averfion
Jhould prefcribe to all others; or raifed fierce
dilutes about it in every company ; and con-
tended that this was no Primitive food, or at
leafi that our way was not the Primitive way
cf making it : that indeavoured bufily to make
a party againfl it among the indifferent and un-
\A 4 inclind
iTo the Readers.'
incllnci either to love or hate it : inuch le^that
reviled and gave reproachful Nick-names to
thofe that ufed it, and fought for Orders to
hanifh it from every Table. If you could fup-
fofefuch prodigious folly, you would not blame
the Neighbourhood, especially the Officers, if
they were concern din it, or any that /hould re-
prefent the ridiculoufneJ?,or the malice offuch
an undertaking. I know the infiance is not con-
fiderable enough to be apply ed to all things at
this day contefied, but to a great many it may ;
and exprejfes well enough the humour of thofe,
who, according to their breeding, feemwith an
equal paflion to oppofe every thing they diflike,
even to the colour of a Garment, or thefafhion
of a Girdle. Tou have enough (Readers)
concerning the Motives to this continuation of
the Debate, whenyou are only told this farther,
that the Juthor having heard of feme excepti-
onsagainfi the former Book, thought good to
Jnfwer, and ( as they deferve ) to [hame them
i^this. It is like iomc oio\xi deceived Bre-
^ c- u thren will hold this labour damna-
Confutation blc atiQ execrable, as being be-
ofthe BrowS ftowed in their opinion, againft the
'^^ ^' '• Church of Ghrift, againft the
Saints, and Children of God and his Holy
truth :i
To the Readers.'
truth : To rrhom I dnftver as the Nonconform
mijisdidto ths Old Separatijfs, Let my
tongue cleave to the roof of my Mouth when
I endeavour to fpeak> and my Pen fticlc to
my fingers when 1 attempt to write any
thing, againft the Church , the Children,
or the Truth of God. But the Errors and
follies in thofe rrhom I think to havefome good-
ne^in therrty may I hope he reproved^ without
\heing thought to reprove their goodne{i : l^ fides y
hy endeavouring to keep them from being Right-
eous overmuch, I take a courfe to preferve
them from becoming too Wicked.
jind now I believe nothing would be more
grateful to fome than to know the Authors
name : but I have nothing to fay to them, but
that i^ is an impertinent curio ftj to inquire any
farther after him, fince he hath no mind to be
known, and fince there is no need of it. For his
name can add no credit or firength to his Rea-
fons ; and as for matters ofFaB, he hath di-
reBed you where to find them, without inquir-
ing after him to be re folved about them. But
fany body think it good manners to inquire into
that which others would have kept fecret ; Xet
\ am fure it argues great want of good breeding
Jo fay no 7nore) to befpatter {asfo?ne have
done )
To the Readers'
done ) this and the other perfon whom they only
conjecture to he the jiuthor ; Laying to their
charge things that they know not. Let me
advice them to he more Civil ; Since 1 am fare
they do not yet know me, nor I helieve, ever
Jhalty unle(il pleafe; and fince by difiurhing
themfehes and others ftill in this kind, they are
like to reap nothing fave their own further
Jhame. I end with the good Counfel which
Mr, Whittingham long ago concluded a
* Troubles Letter of his withal "^ Know be-
at Frandfort, fore you iud2e,and believe not all
Printed^ 1575, n • ^ 1 1
liying tales ; keep one ear open,
and report the belt.
jipril 1$. 166 g.
Imprimatur.
Tho. Tomkyns, K. R^^ in Chri(lo Patri
ac Domino D^° Gilberto Divina Provi*
dentid jfrchi-Ep, Cant, a Sacris Do-
mefiicis^
Apr. 24. i6'5p. ;
Ex -3x1. Lambeth^
The Contents^.
THeNon conformifts af-
fected language and
fooHQi imitation of Scrip-
ture-phrafe noted pag.ijX
About taking Gods name
in vain, and breaking the
third Command 3,4,&c.
The Covenanters highly
guilty of it 8,&c.
How Ur.Cafc taught them
to take the Covenant 13,14
( Some pleaded lleligion
^or breaking it 15
I Contrary to the foleran
rroteftation taken by both
[Houfes before i6,&c.
Non-conformlfis offended
It the Friendly Debate, and
ivhy 2.1
The Apoflles fenfe of^;r-
'-ng no offence, iCor. 10. 32.
2.2
The Debate not guilty of
23
Ncn-conformifts did not
c heretofore that they
:ght to forbear reading
oraraon -Prayer , becaufe
tome faid it gave them fcan-
al ^ 24, 25
Great fcandal of Schifm
lb.
Ofgrieving the Godly 27
Non-conformifts guilty of
■ in the proper fenfe by ca-
ing fcorn on Divine Ser-
hv
vice and our Governors
a8^2p
Mr. O0> Eridzc an inftance
of this 30,&c.
Juft feverity agalnft fuch
defamers petitioned for by
themfelves heretofore 32,35
Anfwer to another obje-
ftion againft the Friendly
Debate for being writD'ia-
logue-wifej^a 34
Non-conformiftshave writ
Dialogues too , and thofe
veryabfurd 34>35j&c.
Mr. Hughes's Conference
noted ihtJ,
And two mors Ancient,
one of which teaches to de-
pofc Kings, ^c. 4ij43
The Non-conformifls pre-
tence of not being guilty in
breaking the Lav. 3, becaufe
they ire ready to fufferthc
penalties, anfwered 44*45
Their prefumption that it
is his Majefties pleafure they
{hould take this Liberty a-
gainil the La^vs , anfwered
47,48,&c.
Their change of Princi-
ples, who held heretofore,
that the Law was the Kings
Superiour 52.,&c.
Mr. T^J. Bi-iJgef remark-
able for this Do6trine in a
Book of his publifhed by
Au-
t n E CO
Authority 54>&c.
More "inftances of their
changing for their intereft
58,59
This remarkable in the
Army Saints <5i,&c.
Who writ after the Copy
fet them by their Superiors
(57,(58
That the Author of the
Debate is of a harfti, bitter
and jeering fpirit, anfwered
at large ^9* to']']
Railing not the better,
becaufe in Scripture phrafe
ibfj.
Some inftances of Non-
conforraifts reviling lan-
guage, the better to (hew
whence the prefent railers
learnt theirs
?8,7p,&c.
Reflections upon a paf-
^ fageinMr. C?p 82,&c.
An inftance of fan(5tified
wit as they call it 85,85
Jome famous Avw Eng-
land preachers guilty of foul
.language 88
That it hath wofuUy in-
fe(3:ed the people is appa-
rent 89
And it is an old difeafe
90,91
How they were ferved in
their kind 9X,P3,&c.
' The Author falfely accu-^
fed of writing out of Ma-
lice, ^f. 10I,&C.
N r E N 1' S.
How the Non conformlfls
defpife thofe that are not of
their party io<5
The Authors moderation
inhiscenfures 108
How he hath dealt with
Mr.-Bn%? 108,109
Hi sway and fpirit further
difcovered iii,ii2,&c.
Particularly, that it is An-
tlchyijiian and fchifraatical,
as appears by the Jermon of
ChetwoWitnefTes ii9,&c.
His dangerous dodtrine
about their power to difturb
the ftate,C5'r. I20,&c.
His prefixing the time for
it out of the Rev:;!, ii^.&c.
How often they have
been deceived in their con-
jedures I24,i25,&c.
About this time I3i,i32,&c,
The danger of interpre-
ting every judgment that be-
fals, in favour of their con-
ceits I28,I29,&C.
A rare interpretation of
the prophecies forenamec
from 135. to 14:
A reflection upon thofe
bold deceivers 142,14;
The caufe of thefe com
ceits 14;
Their prefumption thaj
their platform (hould be
pattern to all Churches
147.143*
Mr.OJehis high opinion
of
.7 H E CO
of the Covenant iSijiSi
His, and Dr. J'Tz/A.-m/owi,
and fome of the Scots and o-
ihers opinions of us iSii
I54)i55,&c.
And of the favours they
receive from others i6o
Of their Canting phrafes,
as Gcncration-viorky vsitnef-
Qng tiwc from \6\, to \l6
Dr. Wilkinfom confidence
noted i68.i<59
How they have (liifted and
changed phrafes to ferve
heiriurn 170/0 178
Of the power of phrafes
hinder men from obfef-
ng how they have been
heated i73>&c.
The power they fancy they
avetodeflroy us i78,&:c.
Their opinion of their
:nowledge and worth 181,
l82,&C.
Of their praftice and
kill in expounding works
f providence 185, &c.
1 heir people not more
nowing than ours 194,
iP5,&c.
Many know not whac that
which they cry out againfl
ipS,&c,
Inftances in Popery, fu-
rllition , Will-worfhip
x/.'»J. 6c204,2.05,&C.
About forms ofprayer 207
Their forms of railinr»
n
N 7 E N7 S,
which they ufe even in pray-
er,^f. 2o8,&c.
Their fmallskill,fave on-
ly in phrafes 2i3,&c.
As appears by their eafie
turning to the wildeft ^6t3
xis
A famous inflance of this
mNt^w England 2i5,&c.
Miftakes about the Spirits
teaching and infpirati-
onSy^c, 2ip
This, together with the
obfcurity oftheirDo<5trinea
great caufe of peoples doubts
and defertions 2.21
An inftance of the intri-
cate way of Mr. Hooker to fa-
tisfie a doubting Chriftian
222
And to bring it to the
promife as he fpeaks
224,&C.
Hence the 'Ncvi England
whimfeyes 227
Mr. J, Durants w^ay of
comforting believers and
opening AScriptures 229,
230,&C.
They are no betteratre-
folving doubts about parti-
cplar adions 232,&c.
How Religion hath been
fpoiled of late and expofed
to contempt 237,&c.
Non-conforraifls great
want of Modelly 243,&c,
Con'
1 H E CO
Concsrning eminent men
Of judging others ; in
what things we . may, in
whatnot 24 9,6cc.
Charity covers a Multi-
tude but cannot or may not
cover all fins a52..&c.
By what means propha-
nefs came to abound 254 ,&c.
Publicans and Harlots,or
Scribes and Pharifees,which
the wdrfe 259 Ac
The danger oF Schifm
and feparated Congregati-
ons . z66
Mr. Bridge his vain con-
ceit that we are angry be-
caufe they withdraw from us
and flight us 2(57,&c.
How 2 Cor, 6. 17. is abu-
fedby hira to countenance
the fepar.^.tion 274
By which and fuch like
the old Brozi'tiffls and more
ancient Donatifts jnftified
their Schifm 278,&c.
The wife and charitable
courfes to which St. Aufiin
dire(5tsus when men are ge-
nerally bad 28l,&C.
Mr.Cjf/Wn/ judgment of a
true Church and reparation
from it 283,&c.
And Presbytenan Mini-
fiers judgment 287
cv^S. 19. p. doth not
countenance the reparation
N r E Nt S.
289
The impertinent allegati-
on of that place Rev, 14. 4.
by Mr, Bnd^ 291
How the people have
been cheated with the noife
of fuch words as Bab^lofi^Scc,
292,&C.
And by other means 294,
&c.
Of Idol Mlniflers 300,
30i,&c.
The folly of thofe who
think our Miniflers (out of
refpeit to themfelves) are
troubled to fee people go to
meetings 30$,3o<5
The true reafon of their
trouble, and the great dan-
ger of feparation 307,308 &c
Not only to thofe who are
of it,but toothers 310,11,12
The great extremities it
hurries men into 313
The Presbyterian' excufe
that they feparate not from
us as Antichriftian, confide-
red 3 14 Ac
It makes their caufe the
worfcjif it be true 318
\\ hich tenderconfcienc
men (hould confider, efpeci
ally remembring the iiTu
320,&^
The diforders among th(
Independents, when in Hoi
land 323,&c
And more anciently a-
raon
7 R E C -N
mong tlie old Separatifls
325 to 330
No fecurity againft the
like,or worfe again 330,&c.
In vain to bewail thefe
Divifions unlcfs we take a
courfe to amend them 333,
&c.
"What belongs to private
peifons to do in order to it
335, 3^, &c.
Not fludy fo much their
Governors duty, as their
own, and what that is 339
to 343
Of yielding on both fides
The ancient Non-confor-
mifts did not think they Hill
ought to preach when they
were deprived ; but the con-
trary that they ought not
345,^c.
The idle pretence of forae
from that place, lYo ke to nje
tf I preach not, confuted
348 to 350
And of not confulting
whhfl/hand blood 351
Non-conformifts do it too
much 353
Life why do they not
ireach as the old Non-con-
[Forraifts did, how lawful fet
brmsare,&c. 353
And teach this with great
^arneilneis 357
i^fpecially conGderlng how
' r E N t s.
miferably fome are prejudi-
ced agatnft them 358,&c.
That exception anfwered
though a form be lawful yet
ufclels 36c,&c.
Some reflexions on a
Book called Commonprayef
Book Demotions Epfcopal De-
iuftOfUjSLC, 36'2
The prophanefs , and
chollerick fcurrility of it
3<53,(54,&c.
The Ignorance and bold-
nefs of thePrefacer 366,&c.
Mr. Cariwyight not againft
a fetformofPrayer,&c. 368
How vainly he vapours
with the name of Mr. Parker
370
And abufes Mr. Green-
ham 371
But above all Dr. J. Key-
noldsj who lived and dyed
conformable in all things to
the orders of the Church of
England 372, 373,&c.'
Some of the little reafon-
ings in the book anfwered
376,&c.
The abufe of a place of
Scripture noted 37P
The Liturgy fraels not of
the Mafs book 380
Antiquity of Liturgies by
their own conFeffion 382,&c.
The prefuraption and un-
charitablenefe of this Wri-
ter 384>&c.
His
1" H E CO
His main Argument an-
fwered 387,&c.
After all hisbluftering he
allows a prefcribed form to
fee lawful 3po.,&c.
And is fain to wreft feme
Scriptures in favour of con-
ceived prayers 393
His falfe arguing from
yfr.7.3i.and fuch like pla-
ces 394,&c.
How that place Dcut, iz,
32,is wont to be mifinterpre-
ted 3P7,&:c.
It was the manner of Mr.
y,G, to fpeak confidently, be
thecaufe never fo bad 401,
402, &c.
Non-conformifts general-
ly guilty of too much confi-
dence 404
A grofs corruption of Dr.
Sthbs his fouls conflict after
his death,noted 405,4o5,&c
Of Forms of Prayer and
ofimpofingthem 409, &c.
SmeEiymnutis aWovjGd im-
pofitions in fome cafes 411
The Presbyterians were
againftaToUeration of the
Independent way 4i3,&c.
The Independents alfo
impofe their own devices 5c
have forms alfo,&c. 4i5»&c.
Of Ghriftian Liberty,
N t E N f S.
The opinion of Mr. Durj^
and Mr.C'(?«0K,&c. about this
42-3.2.4
Of Penalties 425
The opinion of Prefby-
terians and Independents
formerly about them 427
How the King himfelf
was abridg'd of his Liberty
42-P,&c.
The Independents for
punifnments 432,&c.
Some good Counfels out
of Mr. Bernard 435,&c.
How to behave our felves
in doubts 440,&c.
Some good Rules to guide
our felves by 443,44
What to do if we think
that is finful which Autho*
rity commands 445
Rom. 1 4, 23. Whatsoever is
not of faith ^V^«, opened 445
Of fear to offend others
447>&<^'
The great want of charity
and fuch like graces 449
How thefe good Counfels
were contemned by the fe-
paratifts 450^
A defcriptixJn of them 45 r '
The Refolution of tlie
Presbyterian heretofore a-
bout Uniformity and Obedi-
ence to Laws 454
> *V v<*^ ^*\ • ^*^ ^*^ /*»^ v<^^ >r*'!i vt'!i • rl^ iTl'Tc /t'^x jT^'^i
A
C ONT I NU AT ION
of the
Friendly Debate.
YO U are well met Neigh-
bour, How do you?
A^. C. Very well ,
through Mercy. Why do you figh ?
C. To fee you fo far from mend-
ing your Schifm, that you proceed
to make it wider; and divide our
very language. Why cannot you
fpeak as the reft of your Neighbors,
and fay , Well 1 thank Gad ? Is it a
jcommendable thing to be Singular
without any need ? and to feparate
|from us even in your words and
iforms of fpecch ? Or is this a part
of the Language of Canaan (fo much
B talkt
i
A Continuation' of
talk't of in the late times ) to be
learnt ofallthofe, that will be ac-
counted the People of God i
N. C. Take heed how you fpeak
again ft the //r^^/ of God. They are
a peculiar people, and muft not do
after the manner of the Nations.
C. What Nations ? Do you
take us to be all Heathens ? Nay ,
fuch Heathens from whom you are
not only to feparate your felves, but
utterly to root out ?
N, C You carry our meaning
too far.
C No farther than fome of youi
Secftdo, whom you have taught in
a foolifli and dangerous manner tc
imitate the Scripture Phrafe; anc
to apply all that concerned Ifrael
to Themfelves ; and all that con
cern'd the feven accurfed Nations , o
Egypt ani Babylon^ to their Neigh
bours.
N.C. lamnotone of thofe; bu
I and many others, whenwe ar
askt about our welfare, dare no
fpeak as you dO; left we Ihould tak
God
the Friendly Debate.
"iods fjdme in Vain : of which ymi
now Ifrael was to be very careful.
C. Is it to no purpofe then to
hank God for our own and our Fa-
lilies health? Or to pray God
^ould be with our Friend when we
leet or part with him? Perhaps
on think that Boa::^ took Gods
ame in vain, when according ro
he Cuftome in Ifraelf he faid ro his
eapers, the Lord he withyou : and
hat they were Oflfendors for reply-
ig, tke Lord hle(s thee. I doubt ere
3ng you will refufe to fay upon oc-
afion, GOD SJVE THE
CING, for fear of taking Gods
ame in Vain.
N. C. Notfo. We can ufe fuch
/ords when we are very ferious, but
ot commonly.
C. You made me believe , the
aft time we talkt together, that
!ou were commonly y if not alvrayest
lierious. But now it feems the
^^orld is altered with you.
N. C. We are afraid you are not
lierious ; but ufe thefe words fo
' B 2 care-
A Continuation of ^
carelefly that you break the Third
Commatjdynent : upon which accountf
we would teach you to refrain them.'
C. You are excellent Interpre-
ters of Holy Scripture! What
rare Comment fhould we have upoi
it, if all your Expofitions were but
gathered and put together ? As you
find words now ufed in common
talk, fo they found to your fancy
there : And this makes you take it
fooft into your mouths in vain; I
mean bcfides its purpofe and inten-
tion. Alas! that you fhould be no
better inftrudled than generally to
entertain this conceit, that a man
breaks the third Commandment, ii
he mention the Name of God, with-
out lifting up his Eyes, clapping hi?
Hand on his breaft, orfome fignifi
cation of Devotion ! This abfurc
Fancy I have heard fome alledge ai
aReafon why they would not lei
their Children ask them Blefling
/. €, defire them to pray to God fo
them : And others have made thi
the caufe why they would not teac!
then
the Friendly Dehate,
hem their Catechifm, nor any
^rayers, left they fliould take Gods
?ame in vain ; that is, in their fenfe,
lake mention of it, and not mind
,/hat they fay.
j iV. C, I do not approve of fuch
)pinions as thefe.
I C. If you did, you w^ould con-
emn your felf many hundred times
laDay. For how oft do you tell
s in common difcourfe, of ^^^ Peo-
leofGod y and the things of God y
nd tht Ordinance of God, not mind-
ig that you mention his Name.
Tay how many timxs have we heard
pu fay in your Prayers, O
ORD, O GOD (fomtimes
nice in one fentence) when we
ave great reafon to think you did
3t know whether you ufed it fo ofc
rno. Now, which will you fay ?
hat you finned in this^or that ; it
fufficient to have an habitual Re-
uTence toward Almighty God, and
:2vertoufe hisName in an irreve-
::nt manner; though we do not al-
ways adlually attend when we ufe it?
I B 3 MCA
6 'A Continuation of
i\Z'. C. I have not confidered this ;
but was alway bred in this Belief,!
that we break the Third Command-
ment when we ufe Gods name in
common talk; and that's theRea-
fon I did not anfwer you after th
ufual manner.
C It's well if you be not monl
careful to keep the Commandmen!
in the Phrafe-fenfe^ than in its pro;
per and Principal meaning.
J\f. C. How now ? muft we h
beholden to you to invent a neii
word for us ?
C, It cannot be new to you fun
who are fo well verfed in a Divinit
that confills;, in a manner, wholl
of Phrafes ; and fetting them aCdi
hath little or nothing in it, upo
which account it may well be caller
J^hrafe-Divinity. '
JSf. c. You will never leave yoi
Pleafantnefs. Pray talk more gravv
ly, and explain your felf.
C. rietellyouthen what Imea
There are many I obferve, who ha
been very fcruoulous about tlj
Thi
I
the Friendly Debate, n
'hird Commandmentv and careful
Lcp it, as the words arc vulgarly
i^Jinour language now a-daycs;
^ho have made no Confcience at ail
fit, at leaft notorioufly broken it,
ccording to the true import of the
Vords among the Hebrevrs, Yov,
5I have been taught, when Mofes
ndy Ihoufhalt not take the Name of
he Lord thy God in vain, &c. His
leaning was ; that no man fhould
are to call God to witnefs to any
ling he fpoke, and yet utter a falf-
ood , or not do according to his
romife. If he were fo prophane,
;e afTures him that God who was
r/V^f-y^to what he faid, would alfo
e his Judg, and by no means acquit
im. Now^howoft you have broken
he Commandment in this, which
5 the main fenfe ; while you have
icen very ftridt to keep it in the o-
her, I need not tell you.
[ N' C. You muft tell me ; or elfe
muft tell you that you are like the
^evilf a falfi accuftv of the Bre-
In en.
B 4 cYcur
8 A Contimation of
C. Your Minifters can tell you
a great deal better than I, who were
wont to complain of this as one of
the moft grievous fins of the times ;
that fo many h^d forfrvorn themfelves
hy breaking their Solemn League and
Covenant, You covenanted, for in -
ftance, to extirpate Herefy and
Schifm ; and fuch great diligence
was ufed in this point, that they
grew fafter, and to a greater height
than ever had been known among us.
So Mr. Cafe tells the Farliament in
his Thanksgiving-Sermon for the tak-
ing of C/?^y?^r p. 25. And asks them
hovp it comes topaf? that thefe abound
* more than ever they did, and that un-
der "their JSiofes ? There is fuch a nu-
meroiis increafe ( faith he ) of Errors
andUerefieSyXS Iblufh to repeat what
fame have affirmed, namely, that there
are no lefs than an hundred and four-
fcore fever dl Herefies propagated and
Jjrrcd in this Neighboring City, jind
many of fuch a Nature, as that I may
truly fayy in CA L VI N' S language,
the Errors and innovations under
which
the Friendly Debate] g
\xfhkh we groaned of late years ( He
[means under the Bifliops ) were but
\tollerabte iriflesy childr ens play y corn-
fared with thefe damnable DotirineSf
\DoBrines of Devils. Nor is he alone ^
in thefe complaints, but Mr. Ed-
iwards "^ craves leave to be free with'Epifi.Ded.
them, and to tell them that Sedtsff^ofee*
had been growing ever fince the firffc^f *^i„
year or their litting ; and every year ^ part*
increafed more and more. No foon-
er had they put down the Common-
Prayery but down went the Scrip-
tures themfelves together vvkh it,
which many among us (faith he)
flight and blafpheme. The Images
oFthe trinity, Chrift, Virgin ^^JVLary,
and the Apojlles were ordered to be
broken down ; and at the next
ftroke there were thofe that over-
threw the DoBrine of the Trinity,
oppofed the Dlvinify of Chrift,
(poke Evil of the Virgin ^lary ,
flighted all the Apuftles.The Parlia-
ment caft out the Ceremonies in the
SacramentSj, the Cr-c?f?and Kneeling ;
and then the People in many places
caft
lo A Continuation of
cafl: out the Sacraments themfelves ;
Baptifm and the Lords Supper. The
one took away Saints day es , and
fomeof the other made nothing of
the herds-day. The fuperfluous
maintenance as he calls it, of Bi-
fliops and Deans being cut off, im-
mediately the neceflary fetled main-
tenance of all Minifters was cryed
down and denyed too. Nay the Bi-
fhops and their Officers being gone,
there were many that would have
thrown away all Minifters after
them. A great deal more you may
find there to the fame purpofe if you
have a mind ; but he feems to fum
up all in this ; the Fourth Command-
ment was taken away in the Bi/hops
dayes (fo he is pleafed to calumniate
them ) lut now we have all ten Com-
mandments taken away at once hy the
Jntinomians ; yea all Faith and the
Gofpel denyed hy the Seekers. He
would have inferted this claufe fure,
if he durft ; the Third Commandment
is now taken away hy the Parliament,
For I pray you, my good Friend ,
what
thf Friendly Debate] 1 1
what remembrance had they of the
dreadful name of God, to whom
they had lifted up their hands?
What a trifle was that facrcd Oath
now accounted ? Tihat water of life *
which (as Mr. Cafe fancied"^) had* Sermons
kept all the Nation from giving up the co^xnant, '
ghofiy wasdeaditlelf; and had not^' ^^"
the leaft fpirit remaining in it, to
quicken thefe Covenanters to ex-
tirpate Hcrefies. Nor would all
the expoftulations of their Mini-
fters put any life into them: But as
thefe complainers had violated o-
ther obligations in taking that Cove-
nant ; fo now their Mafters fet it at
naught, and, to ferve the ends of
State,continued to connive at thofe
things which they promifed to root
out. For a great while after this,
I find no lefs than three of your Di-
vines ( in their Epiftle to the Rea-
der before Mr. Pooles book againft
Eiddle ) renew their Complaints,
that the whole body of Socinianifm
which walkt only in the Darkf and in
Latirje, in the Bif-ops time, was now
tranjia-
12 A Continuation of
ttanflated into Englijh, Many hold
Fa5ioYS for thofc Blajfhemies which
in thofe times durji not appear, dif-
feminating now their Herefies without ,
feary both publickly and from houfe to
houfei Which by the way may in-
ftrudl you who are to be charged
with a great part of the guilt and
mifchief of fuch Books as the Sandy-
Foundation ( /. e, the DoiSlrine of the
Trinity ) Shaken, and feveral others
lately publifhed. In fhort, this
was a thing fo notorious, that Mr.
Cafv moves the Parliament ( in that
Thankfgiving Sermon/?. 50.) that
there might be a folemn faft to hum-
ble and afflicft their Souls for Cove-
fjant'violationsy and wherein the Co-
'venant might he renewed in a more fo-
lemn andferiou^ manner with God.
N. c. Thefe were hot fpirits,
and might be too forward to charge
the Covenanters with taking Gods
name in vain when they were not
guilty of it.
C. But you will not fay that the
greateft part of the London-Mini-
fers
the Friendly Del/ ate. Ij
JJers were rafli and heady. Now if
jyou read their Seajonahh Exhort at i-
\on to their rcfpedtive ParilTies, prin-
ted 1660. you will find, they com-
plain oithe Odious fcandals of thofe
I that pYofefi themfehes the People of
I God : particularly cf their [elf feeking
wider pretence of the publick good ;
and their unparalleled breach of all
civil and f acred Oaths and Covenants
both to God and Men.
N. c. This 1 confefs is a fad fto-
c. Confider then I befeech you ;
if thefe Leaders and great Profef-
fors were fo guilty, what fliall we
think of the common People, who
took the Covenant hand over head
(as we fay) being totally ignorant
of feveral things to which they
fwore : nay were taught by Mr. Cafe
(in his Sermons about the Cove-
nant/?. 41.) to take it, though they did
not under jland it ?
N,C, I cannot believe you.
j C- Go to the Book then and be-
lieve your own Eyes, There you
y " will
4 A ContimaUon of
will find he alledges the Example
of Jojjah for it, who renewed the
Covenant when he was a Child ; and
oi Nehemiah who made the Women
and Children do the like. He was
fenfible indeed, that there is a great
difference between that which was
Divine^ and this which was but the
Devife of men ; and therefore would
perfwade them that they were
bound no further by this Oath, than
they fliould fiijd the things contain-
ed in it to be according to the Word of
God. But it is plain, I fhew'd you
the Inft time, the Parliament did
not allow any Body to expound the
Covenant but themfelves. And be-
fide this, they fware without any li-
mitation to preferve things as they
flood in the Church of Scotland,
where for any thing they knew,
there might be as abfolute a Tyran-
ny, as is exercifed under the Papa-
cy. Nay, in Scotland it felf, there
were fome who argued foftrongly
clnf."'^'^' ^g^^^fl: the Covenant, that a Jolly
man I have read of, was driven to
fuch
^ the Friendly Debate. 1 5
fuch ftraits at laft^, as he had no-
thing to fay but this, 7hat they
muft deny Learning and Reafon, and
helpChrift a Lift. If you will give '
me leave , Tie tell you fomething
worfe than this.
I N.c^ Hov^^ is it poflible ?
I C. There were fome that in plain
terms pleaded Religion for the
breaking of the Covenant: So that
( contrary to Mr A^^'s Exhortation
1 told you of) with them ti^cjj^as
Tea, and Nay. J. Lilhurn for in-
ftance, in his Englands Birthright
p. 29. faith, that the Covenant is im-
poffihle to he kept, and that theFra-^^^^,
mers and Makers of it have run into ^^^\i^
wilful perjury. Nay, he calls it; K^thecirv
Make-bate, perfecuting, foul-defiroy'26y^, '
ingy England- dividing, and. undoing *^^
Covenant, With whom you may
joyn Mr. J. Goodwin, who tells us
( in his 12. Cautions p, 4. ) that to
violate an abominable and accurfed
Oath (fpeaking with reference to
this Covenant ) out of confcience to
God, if an holy and a bleffed perjury,
N.c,
1 5 A Contfnuation of
N. C. Now I hope you have done.
C. It ought not to be forgot, that
this Covenant was contrary to your
Solemn Protejiation, taken firft by
both Houfes of Parliament, where-
in they promifed to defend the true
reformed Prate fiant Religion, expref-
fed in the DoBrine of the Church of
England. Did they not ?
JSf.C. Yes.
C. Why then did your Minifters
perfv^ade them to enter into this
J}lew Oath, which was fo contrary
to fome Articles of our Churches
Dodlrine?
JSf, C, They explained themfelves
as I remember, before they Gove-
nanted,and told us what they meant
by the Docftrine of the Church of
England.
( . Very good. And was it not:
finely done, that after the Mem-
bers of both Houfes had taken the
Proteflation, fo as I now faid, the
Houfe of Commons alone fliould
make a Declaration, that by thofe
words [^the DoSirineofthe Church c)
England;
fhe Friendly Debate. 17
tngland] was intended only fo,
nuch of it, as was oppolite to Po-
pery and Popilh Innovation, and
liould not be extended to the main-
renance of the Difciplineand Go-
vernment? And then that under
rhis Explication publifhed only by
ihi^Connnoiis and never aflented to
^ytheP^c-rx, this Proteftation was
iinpofed on the Kingdom, and all
:hat would not take it declared un-
|fic to bear office in Church or Com-
TJon wealth ? Whatis there to be
hid, Ibefeechyou, toexcufe thefe
1-range proceedings. Firft, both
iloufes fwear to plain words. Then
;neHoufe claps an interpretation
)n them. And after that, they alone
.0 far intrench upon the Peoples
Liberties ( which they were bound
•o maintain ) as to impofe this
Protefi/ttion upon them without con-
sent of Parliament: and that un-
Jlcra heavy penalty on thofc that
iilhould not comply with them. All
llhis is no lefs than a Demonjiratior*,-
)fi[nethinks, that too many of you (for
C we
1 8 A Continuation of
we will not condemn all ) have bcei
too forward to take Gods name ii
vain ; at leaft to in gage your felve
in Oaths and Vows haltily and ra(h
ly. And with all it fliews that yoi
were of that impofing Spirit whici
you now complain of; and that Re
ligion was more pretended than tru
Jy aim'd at : And, laftly, that yoi
were fo vainly confident of your fa
vour with God, that you could tak(
hisname into your mouths backwarc
and forward, and never blufli; fc
you did but look demurely, and ex
prefs much reverence to it in com
mon talk. All which I proteft, ii
fpoken to no other purpofe but tc
humble you; andtofhew that you
unjuftly ufurp the name of the mofi
Religious People, the mofi confcienti-
OHs, and the mofi fearful of offending
God, that are in the Nation: and
that you abufe the fimple,when yoi
make them believe that you are the
Pillars upon which the Kingdom;
welfare ftands ; for whofe fake ai
lone it is, that we were not madi
lonf
the Friendly Debate . \ p
long ago like Sodom and Gomorrah,
For itismanifcftyou have involv'd
^"he people in abundance of guilt ;
and made Religion vile in their
<zycs, and helpt to bring the name
)f God, which you have taken fo oft
in vain, into great contempt.
iV. c. This is not a place to talk
n.
C. You fay right : otherwife I
jhould have told you of a fre/h guilt
)f this kind. For 1 am informed
bme have fet up Schools for the in-
lru(5ting Youth in Logick and Phi-
ofophy ; directly contrary to ths
)ath they took in the Univerfity,
Jutlamrunbefidemy intention in
his difcourfc : having told you, I
emember, it would be in vain to
[lifpute any more ; and therefore
jlefired, when we met again, the
jhe time might be fpent to other
purpofes.
; N,C. I have not forgot it. But
jf you will go in here, we will not
.wrangle at all, but only talk fairly^
IS loving Friends , of fome mat-
G z tcrs
2 A Continuation of
tcrs in which you are concerned
C, Ifuppofe it is about our oh
bufinefs, and then you had bette
confider of whati havefaid already
If that will not move you, I havi
little hope to do any good upoi
you.
N.C. You ar-e a ftrange man
When 1 had no great mind to b(
troubled with your Difcourfe, thei
you would never have done. Am
now that I am earneft to be fatisfiec
in fome things, you hang back anc
have nothing to fay. Methinks yoi
might be willing, at leaft, to re
ceive an account of my Thought
concerning our late Debate
C. Have you then confiderec
what I faid, as you promifed yoi
would ?
iV; C. Yes that I have. And bein
fomewhat ftagger'd with it, |
thought good to confult with fom
Chriftian friends, and hear thei
Opinion, which I prefer before m
own.
cT. And what was the iflue ?
the Friendly Debate, 21
A^. C. I perceive they are gene-
•ally offended at you to a high de-
cree.
I c. So were the Scribes and Pha- '
rifeesat our Saviour. And for any
i'hmg I know bo:h upon the fcore,
:>ecaufe you are plainly told oFyour
Faults. This nettles and vexes you
t the heart: only to hide and con-
ceal your fecret anger ; you call it
>y another name, and fay you arc
iffcndcd.
iV! (7. No they are not angry v^^ith
hofe who give them a private re-
roof, but to print a book againft
hem, what can it intend, but mif-
hief?
r. Now I guefs at their meaning,
'heir Senfe is of the fame nature
dth that which Mr. Edwards faith
he Sectaries took at his Gan^rdtna^
Becaufc it hinders their making Pro * second
hlytes, and fo far want of growing t4p ^^^ P* ^^^'
r> fach a number as they deftgn and
\opefor, they may mif^cfa Toleration,
\ndfo in the iffue a Domination )Which
\fo much fought for by them,
C 3 NX.
2 2 ^ ContimaHon of
N.c* They mean the fame that
that the Apoftle doth, who requires
us to give no offence neither to the
Jews, nor to the Greeks^ nor to the
Church of God, iCor. 10.32.
C. By your favour Sir , Saint
J?4ul and you have not the fame
meaning: as you might have learnt
long ago (ijTyou did not converfe
more with your frivolous writcrSj
than thofc who have fome {enfe in
them ) from your great Champion
Mr. Cartwright. He tells you ex-
prefly that by offence the Apoftic
doth not intend, that which difplea-
fey, or di f contents, but that whercbj
occafion is given to any of tranf
greffing againft the Laws of God,
For he is treating of eating things
offered to Idols even in the Temple;
of Idols, or in the prefence of fucli
as were indangered therel;)y : The
Gentiles being hardned in their Ido
latry, the Jews provoked againfl
Ghriftianity, and fome Chriftiani
drawn by fuch examples to follovi
them doubtingly. Take now th<|
^ ' Wore
the Friendly Del? ate . 2 3
Word in this proper fenfe, and I .
/liall be cleared from this imputati-
on; and you your felves condemned
for looking no better to your Ret,
that they go not awry.
JSf.c. Howfo?
c. It is the very defign of <Tny
iBook to keep you from falling into
fin any more: andtodiredl you to
fuch a Courfe that you may not
[break the Laws of God again your
;felves, nor call fuch a ftumbling-
block before others, that they take
loccafion to break them too. If any
|have mifinterpreted my meaning, or
out of anger and vexation grown
worfe and more audacioufly violent
by my writing, they muft bear the
blame which they would throw up-
on me. Nay, a far greater blame,
for they both tdke Offence, when
none was given, and they notori-
ouflyjf/T'^ Offence to others, whom
I would have kept from offending.
N.CThcy will believe both alike;
that you meant to take away Offen-
ces, and that they lay any in the peo»
pies way. C 4 C.Th^t
2 4 ^ Conunmtm o^
C, That is; they feldom believe
any good of others, or any ill of
themfelves. But 1 do not beg your
belief, for it is manifeft to any un-
prejudiced reafon, that the Book
was fet abroad on no other Errand,
thah to remove ftumbling blocks
out of every bodies way ; efpecially
yourSchifm which is the greateft
of all. And if notwithftanding,
you be fcandalized, and confidently
affirm it were better to forbear fuch
writi ngs, you fhall be judged out of
the mouths of fomeofthe old and
better Nonconformifts. Who tells
their Brethren of i\r<?ir-f/^^/^A;^ ( and
I fay the fame to you ) when they
would have had them forbear to read
the Common-Prayer becaufe of the
fcandalitgave to fome ; It ii a [can-
dal taken and not given ; and by for-
bearingy we fhall ojfendyou the moret
if to confirm men in error be tofcanda-
lizethem; yeawejhall prejudice the
Truth ; and it might be an occafeon to
beget needlefi fcruples in others, and
4raw msti ignorant ly from the fellow-
Jhip
the Friendly Debate. 25
hip of the Saints and the holy Ordi-
unces of God, and flrertgthen them
vho by your ovrn confeffion, are run toa
\ir 0to Schifm already. *
h\ C. Whofc words are thefc ?
c. You may find them /^. 16. in
:he Keply made i6j\o. by many Mi-
lifters in Old-England, to the /In-
^wer which their N'. E. Brethren
yave to their enquiry about 9. pofi-
dons in the year 1637. And I
Lvould to God your Minifters would
ilay them to heart, and no longer
continue to harden their Followers
in Schifm, by forbearing the ufe
3f that which they know is lawful.
Remember I befeech thee the fa-
mous obfervation of a great Author,
* that Herejies and Schifms are of all * ^^^^ p^,
other the greatefi fcandahy yea, more^^^'.^^^y^^
, , ^ -' . /. ^ 7-^ Unity m
than the corruption of manner:^, i^or Religion.
as in the natural Body a Wound or So-
lution of continuity is worfe than a cor-
rupt Humour ; fo it U in the Spiritual.
Nothing doth fo much keep men from
\the Church, and drive men out of it,
Of breach of Unity, OneofhisRea-
fons
2 6 A Continuation of
fons is, becaufe every Sefi hath a
diverfepofiure, or cringe by themfelvs,
which cannot hut move derifion in
worldlings and depraved Politicks,
who are apt to contemn holy things. It
ispoflible you maythinkt for you
are very cenforious, that he was no
better than one of thofe depraved
perfons, and fo take no heed to his
words. Let me remember you there-
fore, that there was a time when
the Presbyterians applauded this ob-
fervation, and laboured to ferve
themfeives of it. For I find it cited
in a Book calTd rvholfome Severity re-
conciled with Chrifiian Liberty, li-
cenfed by Mr. Cranford 1644. where
the Author likewife faies, that the
experience of former times makes usfo
Wife, as to forefee that Herefie and
Schifm tend to the breach of the Civil ^
peace, and to a rupture in the Stati
as well as the Church. Of which h(
gives many inftances, efpeciall;
the Donatifis in Jfrick, and the Jna-l
haptifts in Germany. But now il
feems you are grown ftark blind ;
and
I
the Friendly Debate. 27
and whereas you had a forefight in
times paft , at prefent you cannot
or will not fee what is before your
eyes *
N.C. Itold you I would not en-
ter into long difputes vVith you. But
I am heartily forry that you have
fo much grieved all the Godly.
C, You ftill perfift in your old
Uncharitablenefs , Pride, and high
cfteem of your felves above all o-
thers. Or if you mean , only all
the Godly of your way, yet you are
guilty of great partiality ; in tak-
ing a liberty which you will not give.
For you fay what you lift againft
that way, wherein fo many good
people among us truly ferve God,
and make it ungodlinefs in us to fay
any thing againft yours. Pray give
me a rcafon , when you have duly
confider'd it, of this unequal deal-
ing. You fpeak and write againft
the Bijhops, Common-Prayer, the Cere-
monies ; nay many of you openly
revile them to thejuft grief of our
People , and all this with a reputa-
tion
8 I A Continuation of
tion of great Godlinefs : But we
mutt fow up our mouths, and not
fay a word againft you and your de-
vices ; or elfe be accounted ungodly
and prophane , nay it is well if we
cfcape the brand of Atheifm. What
is this, but to imitate thofeHuck-
fters, who have double weights and
ballances, one for buying, another
for felling r* To have one meafure
for your felves, and another for all
other folk?
J\f. C. I do not approve of this.
C. But you fide with thofe that
play thefe tricks. And befides; you
that are fo loth to be grieved in the
vulgar meaning of the words make
light of grieving others in the pro-
per fenfc of it. For you have fo
forely galled and wounded many by
your pradlices, that the AnguiQi
hath been fuch as (according to the
Obfervation now named) to thruft
fome back who were coming to us,
and drive others out, who were a-
mong us. The Reproaches, I mean,
which you have caft upon our
Church,
I
the Friendly Debate. 2g
Church,the divifions you have made,
the confulion you have been Au-
ithorsof, have been iuch thornes in
fome mens way, that when they
were juft at the door of our Church
they have drawn back their foot and
fain back to the Popifh Religion , of
this 1 have good evidence; andfuch
as you dare not queftion of the o-
ther ; that fome have taken fuch
diftaft at the ftate of things among
us, as to turn afide out of the right
way, into the by-paths of Romifla
Superftition and Idolatry. Wit-
nefs the Seafonahle Exhortation of a
great number of the London-ls/lmi''
fters; who tell us p.io. that fome
are f ah from the Truth rrhich they f aw
fo much defpifed , and hackjlidden to
Poperyy a4 the only Religion j in their
opinion , wherein Unity and Order is
maintained. And a little after,/?. 16,
they fay , they are afraid left too ma-
ny may he too well conceited of that Re-
ligion , finding Rome juflified hy
Englands Corfufion , 04 Sodom was
hy Ifraels fin. You may fay per-
haps^
30 ACmimatiovt of
haps, according to your ufual man-
ner, that all thefc were wicked.
But this is not fo eafiiy proved, as
peremptorily faid. And there want
not good reafons to make us think,
that feveral well difpofed perfons,
by occafion of this Schifm and the
Scorn caft upon our Governors and
Divine Service, which accompanies
it; haveforfaken our Communion,
and gone thither where they heard
there was more Unity, Order, and
reverence to Authority.
N. Q Our Minifters are as much
againft thofe, who revile your Wor-
fliip and Service , or do not reve-
rence Authority , as you can be.
C. How doth that appear ? There
is nothing more frequent with fuch,
as Mr. Bridge^ than to teach the peo-
ple that our way of Worjhip and
Church Government is Antichrifti-
an. Read but the 5*. of his len Ser-
mons p. 3*70. and you will fee I do
not bely him. Or, for more full
fatisfac5tion , I refer you to another
Book of his called Seafortabk Truths
in
the Frienly Debate . ^ i
h Ezil Times , where you may find
him inftrudling them too plainly
{p. Ii8.) thatfuch as he have their
Orders to preach or prophecy from Je-
fwi Chrifl himfelf; but Others (by
whom he can mean none but our
Minifters) have their Orders and
tower from Men, from Prelates, from
the Beaft : for thefe are all one in his
language. Nay more than this, he
teaches the pooreft, weakeft man or
woman to go to Jefas Chrififorapow-
?r to Prophefie : remembring them
what one Alice Driver faid in ^ueen
tMary\ daies, llefet my foot againfl
the foot of the proudefi Prelate of
^hem ally in the caufe of Jefm Chrifl.
\nd therefore why fhouldyou not go to
"Chrifl, fays he , and lay your [elves
Jat upon the Promife , and fay to himy
) Lord, lam a poor weak creature ^ I
^ear I jhall never be able to hear my
Teflimeny ; but thou haft faid, I will
nve power to my two witneffes, and I
tmoneofthywitnejfes: Now then,0
^^ord , give power to me, &c. By
vhich you may judge what he
thinks
7 2 A Continuatm of
thinks of thole Mdgifirates that up-
hold our Worfliip and Orders , and
allow no fuch vpeak creatures 2lS his
*filly credulous followers , to com-
mence Prophets and Prophetejfes ,
when ever they fliall fancy that Je-
fus Chrift himfelf hath given them
Power and Orders to preach. And
whether they be the Godly Magi-
fir at es or no , Gods anointed ones^
whom he fpeaks of /?. no.
N. C, Thofe that I am acquain-
ted withall diflike his boldnefs as
much as your felf.
C. If the reft of your Minifters
have fuch an hearty abhorrence, as
I have, of thofe that call dirt even
in the face of Authority it fclf, let
them fliew it by fome means oi
other. Why do they not petitior
his ^JMajeJiy now as fome of youi
Churches did the late Protedlor not
many years ago, that he woulc
chaftife fuch Perfons as thefe ?
N:.C, I remember no fuel-
thing.
C^ But I do; and you fhall find ii
II
1
the Friendly Deflate. ^3
in the addrefs prefentcd to Richard
Cromwell iiom the County of North-
ampton. There , after many high
commendations of his Father '
(whom they c^// the light of their eyesy
ind the breath of their Noflrils) and
great cxpreflions of joy that he had
left him to them oi a moft choife he-
^acy , they defire he would fiew ten^
iernefs toward the name of God again fl;
'he hold Blafphemers of his Magi/ha-
y, Defamers of his f acred Ordinan*
:es, Seducers from Truth, Corrupters
f his Worjhip. And then, that he
\vould exercije jufl feverity againji de-
\pifers of Dignities , and revilers of
\Authority > vphofe unhallowed Tongues
[fet on fire from hell) fpare not toflafh
mt their infolent reproaches and impi-
ous execrations againji his Fathers
Sepulchre, and his own throne* But
ponfider that in thofe dai* it was
.:heir concernment to have defpifers
wd revilers puniflit ; Now they
"erve the Caufe , and help to dif-
jrace the prefent eftablifliment :
iyhich is the reafon, 1 fuppofe, that
D all
54 ^ Contimation of
all the Churches are fo unite in this
matter.
2V\ c. You take the Liberty to
fay what you lift ; but let me fay
little or nothing : And when you
have done, you write a Dialogue be-
tween Tour felf and a Non-conformift ;
in which you make him fpeak juft
what you think good and na more.
Is this fair dealing?
C. Where did you get the fole
priviledge of writing Dialogues?
You imagine:, perhaps, we have
forgot thofe that you entertain'd
the people withal fome years ago;
but our memories are not yet fo flip j
pery. I call to mind, for inftance
the Dialogue between a Countrey\
Gentleman and a minifler of the Woul
about the Common-Prayer, anfwer
ed by Authority 1641. And anc
thcrhctmccn a Loyalijif and aRoyJ
Itfty about our Civil Liberties> at\
1644. Thefirftof thefelcanfcarcj
forget, if 1 would ; the Author ci|
it ( Mr. Lerves Hughes ) impartinj
to mc; fuch an extraordinary piec
the Friendly Deflate. jj
f Learning as this, that Kyrieleefon
; a word compounded of Hebrew
nd Greek, fignifying in Englijh,
.ord have mercy upon us. He fur-
i(ht me alfo with a memorable rea-
)n, why the Mafi-Book leaves out
le Doxology at the end of the Lords
^rayer; becaufe the Pope faies he,
ill have none of his Church 9 neither
Wiefl nor People f to give fo much ho-
our and glory to G^, Which he
as fo well conceited of^ that he
^peates it twice within thecom-
iCs of a few leaves. This good
lan , I fometimes fancy , would
ive been a chofen inftrument, and
one marvelous well, to write a RA-
lONALEof theD/V^Sor)'.In which
h might have told us, that R A-
j 1 N A L E was a word com-
^Dunded of Latin and Engli/h, fig-
nifying, AllReafon. And inform'd
^y in particular, that the caufe
Khy the Aflembly left it to mens
liberty, to leave out the whole
Jords Prayer if they pleafed, was
t\\y thiS; that all their Church might
l\ D 2 gii'^
5 '5 ^ Continuation of
give all honour and glory to Jefm
Chrifl. So I fuppofe his JjfeHion
would have made him fay ; though
if he had followed his Reafon it
would have led him to this; that oi
the Pope left outfomeofithecaufe he
would not do our Saviour fo much hi'
ttour : fo they permitted men to leave
out all, that every man might do hin>
Of little honour as he plea fed. j
N, c. You ^annot for your Iif1
forbear to lead me now and then : t(
fome mirth.
C. I intended only to reprefen
how your Minifters fometime abuf
themfelves,more than any of us eve
did. As for my felf:, lam not coi
fcious of the leaftabufe I have pi
upon you ; nor that I hai
made you fay any thing but wh
your people are wont to talk. Ce| f
tain 1 am that all the wit your Pan
hath, {hall never be able to find ai
fuch Abfurdity in my Book, as thi '
Dialogue againft the Common-PrM ^
er is guilty of; where the Minifi
makes the Gentleman prcfently cc
fi
the Friendly Debate] 37
sfs it to be full of Fopijh Errors ;
^nd to appoint horrible BLjphemies,
,nd l)ing Fables to be read to the
?cople. Nay, makes him cry our,
ilmoft as foon as they had begun *
heir Difcourfe. O horrible ! Horv
}ave the Bifhops deluded King Ed-
yard the Sixth, ^ueen Elizabeth ,
Xiw^ James, and our gracious King
^harles, and the whole State ; and
nade them believe there was nothing
in the Service-Book that is amifi, or
itny way contrary to the Word? God
Almighty deliver us from them. I
iliould blufli to the end of my life,
(f after our whole debate I had con-
cluded^ as this man begun. But
phis is the way of thofe Sots that
plk as if they were infallible, and
iwould bear all before them by their
|bare word ; nay, take it very ill if
you be not converted, as foon as
^they open their mouth. Pythago-
ras is revived in fome of you ; and
"PAt^fucha one [aid it, is of as good
.Authority, as the belt proof in the
tworld.
D 3 N,r^
33 '^ Contimation of
^.C. This was fome ignorant
Zealot, I believe.
C. So one would think ; and yet
he had (o good an opinion of him-
felf, that he thought luch Works
as thefe fit for the eyes of the High-
Court of Parliament. To whom I
find he prefented Certain Grievances
an. 1640. of the very fame import
with this goodly Dialogue, but fo
abfurdly flanderous, that you can-
not but be aftonifli't at his brutiih
ftupidity. For there he tells them
(as he doth the Gentleman at the
conclufion of their Conference )
that the Bifhops have appointed'
fome portions of Scripture to be
read on certain dayes and omitted
others , on purpo/e to pervert the
meaning of Chrifi, and to keep weak
Chri/iians in hlindnep.
The whole Book of Canticles for
inftance, is never appointed to be
read ; that the People, ( as he will
have it ) may not he ahle to fee the
ardent Love and ajfeBion of Chrifi
toward his Spoufe, the Ele£i : and
they
l(
the Friendly Debate. 59
icy thereby he fiirred up to love
hrifi, and he truly zealous for his
]lory. Nay, if you believe him,the
looks of the Kings, ( all favc the
firft chapters ) and the Chronicles *
ere forbid, becaufe they jhew that
'odly Kings did ever love Gods true
Wophets, and did hearken to them,
nd were zealom of maintaining true
.eligion, and fuppr effing Idolatry. In
hich words he difcovered the very
round of their quarrel with the
'.ing^viz. that he did not take fuch
reat Seers as himfelf into his bo-
)me; and fuffer then[i to guide his
lonfcience, as if they were of the
'rivy-Council of Heaven- But he
[fcovered withal how little efteem
*, for his part, merited: Or ra-
ler how well he deferved to be ftig-
iatiz*d and branded in the fore-
sad, as one, ( tofpeak in his own
.nguage ) that vpas a falfe-Prophet,
Wophefying lyes. For was there
^er any man before this fo impu-
:nt, as to put a Libel of this Na-
ire againft his fpiritual Fathers
D 4 and
40 A Continuation of M
and Governors,into the hands of tht^
Higheft Court of the Kingdom ?y
Did any of the Priefis or Prophets of
Baal think you, ever help themfelves
and their caufe by fuch invedlives
againft the Prophets of the Lord?
For my part, I am of the mind, that
the Devil himfclf would be hard put
to't, to invent more bold and mali-
cious Slanders than thefe of this
mans forging ; w^ho wants nothing
but jrit to make him like that Father
cf Lyes, And yet, I fuppofe, he
pafled for a Godly man, a precious
Servant of Jefus Chrifl^ a Faithful
Minifter of the Lord : Nay, was che-
rifhed and incouraged as one of
Gods Prophets ; who had told them
things that could be known no
wayes, but by a Revelation. His
Book alfo, no doubt, found won-
derful acceptance, though it was
ftuft with fo much Ignorance and
railing. The people read it with a
blind Devotion, juft as he was tranf-
ported with fo blind a Paflion, as
^0 accufe our Church of that, which
all
I
the Friendly Debate] 4 1'
11 that had eyes muft needs acquit
t of. Bor both the Books of the
Gngs were Appointed to be read
itircly in the later end of l/pril,
nd in May. As for the Chromcles, «
hey being little more than aRepe-
ition of what was writ before,
light well be left to our private
leading ; together with fome other
Jooks, not eafy to be underftood
i^ithout great Labour and long Me-
itation.
N.c, I wifli you would difmifs
his man, for he hath given us both
|00 much trouble.
C. Your people would not, when
ime was, fo eafily lay his Book out
f their hands, as I am able to prove.
[Jutlet^o; together with all the
rew of Revilers that were before
lim. For you muft know there
i^ere Dialo^ue-vrriters of the fame
Jtamp in the dayes of your Fore-fa-
Ihers. In one of which Books, cal-
led the Dialogue of white Devils, the
Author exprefly tells Js, that if
Ttnces hinder the bringing in of their.
Difci'
42 A Comimation of
Difcipline, they are Tyrants ; and may
be depofed by their Subje£if. A Do-
(Slrine which with all your reading
in the Books of the Kings and the
Chronicles you will no where find
juftified For the people were bet-
ter taught than to go about to de-
pofe thofe that did not favour the
Lords Prophets. I know you all
difclaim this principle ; and I verily
believe many of you abhor it : but
I n:iention it to let you fee what the
Maximes of fome of your Predecef-
fors, imboldned fome of their Po-
fterityto do. For this purpofe I
could relate ftrange palTages out of
fome Books efteemed by your Par-
ty ; which would verify the cenfure
of the Bifliop of Down and Conner
* In his vi*-^ upon the Title of the Dialogue
%Sac now named. Which he faith was
i65T^pS v^ry fi^ f^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ Books ; for if
Hfh'dby ^r^^y there were White Devils,or De-
rvils transformed into Angels of Lights
it is in their perfons who under the ,
pretence of^ndliiy^ l4hour to bring in
all manner of Diford^r into the
Church,
the Friendly Debate] 43
Church, and confufioti into the Com-
mon-wealth. But you have no mind
we Ihould remember any thing that
is paft ; that fo you may the more
confidently fill the world with loud '
clamours, as if there never were
fuch doings, as now. Elfe you
might know there was another Dia-
logue in Queen Elizabeths dayes,
between Diotrephes and S. F^iul ,
in which the Difcipline and its Fa-
vourers are magnified as Jpoflolical:
hut the Bifliops of the Church of
[England made no better than fo ma-
i\y proud Diotrephes's ; nay fo ma-
ny Devils ; and he of Canterbury
!( fo they fpeak ) is Beelzebub, even
Ithe Prince of the Devils.
I ^,c. Still you will have all the
talk to yourfelf, and I muft hold
my tongue. Pray give me leave
to inlarge my felf a while , for I
am blam'd, 1 aflure you, very much
for faying fo little in our laft Con-
ference.
C. Speak your mind.
K.C. I
'44 -^ Contimmon of
K. C 1 muft ingenuoufly coafefs
that we cannot accufe you of fuch
fpeeches as thefe ; but yet you fhew
your great malignity to us other-
ways. In particular it is very ill
taken, that you make our Minifters
guilty of breaking the O^cford JSi,
and the ^yiB of uniformity. For you
make as if they were obliged to keep
within that diftance from this place
which the Law prefcribes, if they
have not taken the Oath : And if
they have ; yet not to hold Aflem-
blies (without Common Prayer) ef-
pecially in time of your Service.
Now it is plain to us, that they are
not obliged to keep thefe Laws, fo
as you would have them. Mark
what I fay; they do not refufeto
obey them ; only they cannot do ic
in your manner. There are tw
waies I have heard them fay fome
times, of obeying Laws ; eithe
doin^ what they Command, or by
fujferitig what they inflidt. Now
our Minifters are content to indure
the penalties ; chafing to fatisfis
the
twa
me-i
rbyj
the Friendly Debate . a j
the Laws that way, which ismoft
convenient for themfelves.
C. Have you done?
N.C. Yes.
C, Then give me leave to tell
yoU;» I do not believe they are fo well
contented as you pretend. But if
they be ; they are no better obfer-
vers of Laws than a Thief, who is
content to be hang'd after he hath
rob'd his neighbours. I doubt they
are contented both alike , /. e. they
hope to efcape without punifliment;
and when they are laid hold on, they
fubmit becaufe they cannot help
it. But when that's done, they are
ftill both alike under fin ; becaufe
it is not the thiefs hanging , and
1 your fine and imprifonment , which
\ the Prince intends ; but the doing
I that which he commands. If this
i be negle(fled, or you do contrary to
i his Laws ; you offend God as well
t as your Prince, and are liable to be
puniflitbyboth.
N. C There is a wide difference
in thefe things. For God you know
re-
■^5 A Contimation of
requires we fhould not fteal ; but
he doth not lay fuch Comn:iands on
us, as your Laws.
C, He requires you to obey the
Magiftrate; which your Apology
plainly confefles , while you fup-
pofe he is fufficiently obeyed if you
fufFer the penalties of his Laws.
Which I muft tell you, is a ridicu-
lous fancie; and makes the Magi-
ftrate a moft barbarous Tyrant ;
who is as well pleafed^ or takes
himfelf to be as well obeyed , if his
fubjedls be hang'i or broken on the
Wheel after they have done a world
of Mifchief ; as if they had been
honeft and peaceable Members of
theCommonwealth. Away with thefe
abfurd do5lrines : which fuppofe all
Governours to punilh the innocent;
and all Subjedls to obey meerly for
vrrath and not for Confcience fake^
You had beft go and correcfl St.
Paul: 01 elfe corredlyour felves ;
believing that you are guilty of a fin
when you do not the things which a
Law , not contrary to God's, re-
quires.
the Friendly Del? ate. 47
quires, or elfe the Magiftrate could
have no right to punifli you: and
that your Puniftiment alfo is not to
free you from the guilt of the Firfi *
Fault ; but to prevent a Second.
' JSr.C, But this is not all they have
tor fay for themfelves. They are
men of a tender confcience, what-
pver you think ; and have a great
regard to the commands of their
Governors ; nay think they ought
;o be obeyed for confcience
fake
C To what purpofe then do they
ife the former fliift ?
i\r. C. Pray let me go on. They
onfefs I fay that Laws fhould be
cept ; and yet they are well aflfured
hey commit no fin, in not keeping
hofe you fpeak of
C. They are wonderful men.
N.C, For they are very confi-
lent it is his Majefties pleafure that
hey ftiould take this liberty againft
he Laws.
C. Good Sir, take heed what you
ay. How come you to know his
Ma-
A Continuation of
Majefties Pleafure ? where did he
whifper it fo foftly, that none could
hear it but your fel ves ?
J\f. C, I was going to tell you, if
you would but be patient. Wc
hold that fince his Laws are not ex-
ecuted; it fignifies his pleafure to
allow us this Liberty; and we e-
fteem it a fufficient warrant for our
prefent pradlice : Nay, a tacit De-
claration that he doth not defire tjie
Laws fhould be obeyed. And upon
this account you are juftly blamed^
who being but a private man have
exprelled greater feverity againft
them than the ^J^agiftrate himfelf:
for you have charged them with the
guilt of Sin, when the Magiftrate
doth not fo much as puniflithem.
Do you not think the King can dif-
penfewith us? and doth he not in
effedl give us a difpenfation when
his Laws are not executed ? Why
do you then difallow , what he ap-
proves of? May not his Majefty do
what he thinks good ? -*—
c. 11
the Friendly Debate. 49
C. lundcrftand you well enough;
and therefore thefc Repetitions ftte
ncedlefs. But 1 would fain know
what warrant they had when they »
firft ventur d to acftcontraiy to thofe
Laws. What alTurance had they,
that it might be done without dan-
ger to themfelves, or dillike to their
Prince ?
i N.C. Indeed,! did not think of that.
C. If you cannot fatisfie that
Queftion , you muft acknowledge
you have but fpun a Cobweb in ma-
king this Kxcufe. And confefs in
plain terms that when they broke
the Ice, and firft took this Eold-
nefs, they were Sinners : and now
they make one fin the Juftification
bf another.
N, C. How To.
C, They firft tried whether
my notice would be taken of
heir abiding here, and of their clo-
Ter meetings contrary to Law : and
[A^hen they found there was none ;
:hen they ventured further , and
i)pened their doors more confident-
E ly
^ o ^ Continuation of
ly for all comers : and ftill there be-
ing no notice taken of this licenfe
they gave themfelves; now they
make it an argument to juftifie
what they do, and would perfwade
us it is as good, as if they had a li-
cenfe from others for thefe unlaw-
ful pradlices. So I call them : for
you muft know further , that the
Non-execution of the haws , is no
proof of his Majeftie's pleafure
they fliould notbe obferved. For
it may be imputed to the negligence;
of his Officers and Minifters in the
difcharge of their Duty. But ifl
to ferve your turn, you will fay it vs
an argument of hU will and not ofl
their negledl ; you muft unavoid
ably ferve fome bodies turn befidesj;
your own. In plain Englifh yom
muft dffirm it is his pleafure thati
the <^a{i fhould be faid , and the
Papifts fhould take the fame libertyj|
and opennefs in the exercife of the
Religion , that you do in your
Nay , 1 do not fee why all Drun
kards, Swearers, and Blafphemers
may
(he triendly Debate,
may not think themfelves allowed
in their Crinnes ; becaufc little or
no notice is taken of any of them.
To which I may add, that feveral
perfons who think the non-Execu-
tion of Laws is a warrant to you ;
yet find very much fault with your
meetings in the time of ourpublick
Allemblies : Which is void of all
fenfe if your Reafon be good; for
there is no more notice taken of
that, than of your meeting at other
times. And yet it is demonftrable
^thatthe not puniflnn^ your meeting
in time of Divine Service doth not
ignifie his Majeftie's pleafure to
illow it ; and confequcntly ^(?«r not
^eing punijhedy. can never fignifie his
)leafure to indulge you in other
natters. For if from thence you
an gather that he approves of what
ou do, then fo may rre if we lift to
o the fame : And upon that ground
)ay meet in little companies where
e pleafe, and leave our Churches
ite empty. A thing, without all
ubt , which his Majcfty abhors to
E 2 think
^2 A Continuation of
think of. You your felves have de-
clared in times paft:, that it U abfurd
to think y that Laws nay Ordinances
of Parliament {even in matters of Re-
ligion) fhould not equally oblige all the
fuhje^ts of one Kingdom, If there-
fore the Laws oblige u^ y then they
obWgc you : If they do not oblige
you, then they oblige not us neither
We are all alike either bound o
free.
But to leave all thefe Confidera-
tions; there isfomething more re-
markable me thinks in this cafe^that
deferves to be remembred above any
thing elfe. And truly I cannot but
fmile fometimes ■
N. C. Why what ij the matter ?
CI I was going to fay ( but the
very thought of your odd humor
hindred me a little) that I cannot
but fmile to my felf when I call to
mind, how you ihift your Principles
& change your Maximes, according
to your Intereft. There is no Wea
thercock more guided by the wine
then You are by this. For it was i
Funda
e
I
the F'riendly Debate. yj
Fundamental (iMaxime, heretofore,
I well, remember, nnd obftinately
maintained among your party, who
now fawn and flatter ; That the Law
is the Kings Superior : and that he
hath not fo much povrer over it ai to he
its Supream Interpreter : That his
Oath tyes him exprefly to ohferve it ;
and hinds him to fee it executed. Up-
on which fcore all the Kingdom was
filled with loud complaints about
the JSion- execution of Lj' .. .:*:d of
the Indulgences granted to feveral
perfons who offended again ft them.
^'For execution, they faid, was the Life
of the Law , without which it became
vain and ufelefi. This was the bold
Dodlrine currant not many years
ago, and he was held for a Malig-
nant that did not believe it.But now
on afudden we hear you finganew
1 Song in praife of his Majeliies (^r^c/-
ous Indulgence ( for fo you will call
jit) and withall you earneftly defiie
the Execution of Laws may ftill be
fufpended ; that is , lye dead and
i become vain and ufelef?. For which
I E 3 ake-
^A A Cominmion of
alteration, I can find no reafon but
this; that now the Indulgence is to
your felvcs and then it was to other
folk. Then alfo you thought your
felves able to make the King bow to
you; and now your VVeaknefs for-
ces You to worfhip him.
iV. C. Where do you find any
fuch Maximes ? For my part I have
forgot them.
C. I can fend you to feveral Books
where you may refrelh your memo-
ry : particularly to the ^jMedicine
for ^Ulignants ; which tells you
p. 25. that the King hath not power
over the Law , hut the Law over the
King. But for your greater eafe, I
will only refer you to one fmali
Pamphlet called Known Laws : in
which you fhall not fail to meet
with more than 1 have faid.
N.C. Thefe, I believe, were the
Maximes of the State faction,
C, I know no difJerence between
Them and your Divines in this mat-
ter. 1 am fure Mr. Will, Bridges
(who dififers from Mr. Will, Bridge
as
(he Friendly Del? ate , y 5
as little as their Names do) makes
none at all. In whom 1 find a paflage
fo diredlly oppolite to your prefent
Opinions about the obligation of
the Oxford' J6ly and declaring fo
fully the fenfc of your Divines
about the Kings Power, thatlmuft
crave leave to mention it.
N.c. I am content to hear it.
But you muft remember that thefe
were but the Opinions of private
perfons.
c. You are miftaken. This man
made an Anfwer (puhlifl^ed by An-
thority 1644.) to a Book called the
Loyal Convert y in which he tells the
converted Gentleman, that hejpeaks
illej^ally if he fay the King can proteSi
a Papift any way. His Reafon is
Univerfal, though his Inftance be
Particular ; for whom the Law Pro-
'edls not, the King either cannot or
mght not toprote5i. No, he ought
lot, as he tells us, fo much as to
require the help of fuch perfons to
3rotedl him. For they ought only i^^ he
tributaries^ J and to hold themfelves to
E 4 their
55 A Continuation of
their U B I, to their place. Which
words I would have you apply to
that bufinefs which begat this Dif-
courfe. I would fain know of your
Divines how his Majerties Power
comes to be fo variable at their plea-
fure ? Whence is it that He can
difpenfe with your Refulertce in the
UBI or place to which you are by
the Law confined, who would not
difpenfe at all with others, nor re-
leafe them ( no not for his neceflary
affiftance ) from that place to which
according to your Docflrine they
were immoveably chained. The
Law protedl:s both alike ; that is,
not at all: what is the caufethen
that he can give you Protedtion , not-
withftanding the Law; and not
them ? Millake me not ; it is the
fartheft thing from my thoughts to
call in queftion the extent of his
Majefties Supream Power. I only
queftion your Principlesy who pre-
tend to be no Changelifigs. Anfwer
me this. If the King have a Power
to give an Indulgence and difpenfe
with
the Friendly Debate. 5-7
with the Law, why did you fo rude-
ly and barbaroully clamour againlt
him heretofore, and fay the contra-
ry ? If he hiive not, why do you every ^
where feek to juftifie your felvesin
your illegal Pradlices, with a meer
(haddow & fancy of his Indulgence ?
A^. C, There is a great diftance
3f time between the one and the
3ther: and they have changed their
minds upon fecond thoughts.
C.Very likely. And you believe alfo,
that liPreshitery were in its height &
Glory^his Majefty might difpence
.vich theLz/rr/ of their making,as well
is with his own : Do you not I* Alas
good man ! you fhould find, I doubt,
Co your coft, if things were come to
that pafs ; that no Authority could
remit the Rigour of them. For they
lavc condemned all Difpenfations
ind Licenfes,as Antichriftian.Their
Decrees are fo facred, that as there
lyes no appeal from their Courts,
fo none may take Authority to re-
laxate their Laws. For they take
f themfelves to fit in. Ghrifts Tribunal
Seat;
I
•yg A Continuation of
Seat ; and fo their Laws are no
more to be difpenfed with than
his.
Bnt why do I infift fo long upon
one thing, fince there arefo many
inftances of your windings and
turnings as your Intereft leads you ?
There was a time I remember, when
the Parliament was magnified as i
the only keepers of the Peoples Li-
I2^1nut ^^rties. We were told ^ that we
tor on his . .
Majefties mt2ht fiot fo much 04 tmaawe the
Anlwers rr r i i y • • • /
1642. tioujes could be wjurtous; or that a
Committee fhould have any private
ends to miflead them. And there-
fore they could not fit too long,
nor prove a burden to the good peo-
ple. But now you are quite in an-
other ftrain. There is no greater
grievance than a Parliament. No
more intoUerable mifchiefthan their
long Continuance. For which dif-
ferent judgment there is no reafon,
that I can fee, but this ; that then
the Parliament was for you, and
now it is againft you. The time
was alfo, as I told you before, when
the
the Friendly Debate. 5 9
'ho. Commons 2Aonc might impofe a
Proteftation on all the Subjei5ls^ un-
kr the Pain of being incapable of
iny Office, if they refufed it. But ^
low you will be free from all impofi-
ion of this Nature : And an Oath
:njoyn'd by the King and both the
3oufes, under no feverer penalty
han a fmall Reftraint, is look't up-
)n as a grievous Oppreflion. There
re thofe likcwife that can remem-
►er when the Commons alone put
•ut another Order about fomc of
he affairs of Religion : But now a
.aw enadled by the Kings Autho-
Lty, is thought an high invafionof
'hrifts Prerogative; and he muft
ot meddle in matters of his Wor-
lip. The reafon is ; any thing
nay be done by any Body to advance
our fancies, but nothing againfl:
lem by no creature in the World.
(ay, we have not forgotten the
ime when Mr. Cafe ufed this Argu-
Jient among others to perfwade the
3eople to take the Covenant, ^ ^^'Ih^^T^
'ufe Jntichrifi and hif faBion had co\enln:,
pYojperd^'^'^
6o A Continuation of
projperdfo much by entring into Co-
venants ; therefore the People of God
Jhould try what this way wili do, which
hath heen fo advantageous to the ene-
my. For God, faid he, may make
ufe of that Stratagem to ruin their
Kingdom, which they ufed to build it.
But now if any of us fay, that the
fame Perfons have maintain'd a
great reverence in the people to
their Religion, by many Stately
Ceremonies, fplendid Veftures, and
Pompous Rites, and therefore we
may hope to keep the Ordinances of
God from contempt by a few folemn
and grave Ceremonies, by decent
habits, andfuch rites and geftures
as may befeem the dignity of our
Religion; prefently you raife an
out-cry againft us, and the People
are told, that we are Popi/hly affeB-
edy of an Antichriftian fpirit, and
imitate Idolaters. For which I can
affign no caufe but this ; that then
the Argument was foi you ; and now
it makes for us. And you are refol-
ded to ferve your felves by all means
thougl"
the Friendly Debate] 6 1
hough it be by approving and anon
cjecfl:ing the very fame things.
IFa thing like you well, it fhall
TO very hard but you will findfome
Scripture for it. ^nd if none fpeak
plainly, you will torture and draw
fome or other to be on your fide,
ind labour to prove that they figni-
le according to your meaning. But
ifa thing diflike you, then you ask
for plain Scripture. Nothing will
fatisfie, unlefs we fliew it you in
icxprefs terms. It is Superfiition ^
Will-vporjhipy any thing, but good,
unlefs we produce a text in fomany
words to confirm it. Of the fame
gifting humour was the late Amy,
las appears by their unparailel'd
[Story, which in brief is this. On
the 20. oi April \6$y they turn'd
■Majlersy whom they had long fer-
ved, out of doors, as a company of
Self-Seekers, who minded their own
private, more than the puhlick Good,
i^out fix years after, finding tht
good Spirit declining, which formerly
1 appeared among them, in carrying on
the
S2 -A Contimatim of
the great work (thofe are their Cant-
ing expreflions ) and the good old
Caufeitfe If become a reproach: they
were led to look back and examine
the caufe of the Lords withdrawing
his wonted prefencefrom them, ^nd
among other things they remem-
bred what Injuries they had done to
the remnant of the longParliament,
and that they were eminent ^[fertors
of that Caufcy and had a Jpecial pre-
fence of God with them, and were fig-
nalJy hie/fed in that Work. Jnd there-
fore invited them by their Declara-
tion o£May 6. 16^9 (in which you
may find thefe things,) to come and
fit again ; promifwg to yield their ut»
inofl j4IJiflancefor their fitting in fafe-
ty. Would you not imagine now
that they would forever reverence
thefe Eminent y thefe Blejfed men ?
and that to oppofe them in their
great work, would be, in their opi-
nion, to fight againji God, to drive
away the good Spirit, and to endeavour
to deftroy the Caufe of God ? -^nd
yet it was not long before they were
of
the Friendly Debate. 6^
of another mind. They held them-
felves, for all this, tobc the greater
Saints ; the Army of the living God ;
and fo immutably fetled in his fa-
vour that they fhould not lofe it, do ^
they what they would, -rfnd there-
fore as foon as ever the Parliament
refufed to adl according to their
mind, they refufed to yield their
obedience. When they voted fome
of their Commiffions void, and re-
folved to govern the Army by Com-
miflionersin ftead of a Lieutenant
General ; thefc late Penitents could
fee nothing of God any longer a-
mong them : The fpecial Prefencc
oFGod vaniflied, and in a moment
difappeared. So that on the ijth.
of the next Oiiober, they lockt up
the doors of the Houfe, fet them-
felves once more above their Ma-
tters; and in an infolent manner
ieclared "^ all their Orders, J6is ,^ved,\ra,
'pretended J5is, or Declarations (and ^/u^g!'
ill proceedings thereupon had or done ) ^Jl^^^^j^^
7/1 Munday ^^^ lO. of that Month,
\tnd on Tuefday, and Wedncfday
i following,
6^ A Contimatim of
follovping, null and void to all intents
andpuTpofeSy in as full and ample a
manner as if they had been never done.
And immediately after they packt
the Men away after thefe Adls and
Orders. Nay, this they did, not^
withftanding that they had ftilec
themfeives feveral times, but five
Humble dayes before this to. ofOBohr, Tout
anTpe?"J* fatthful Scrvunts the Army ; and pro«
oaob.5. fefJ^J that having diligently inquires
into their hearts and wayesj they found
nothing among them but faithfulnefi
and integrity to the Parliament ; con^
eluding their addrefs in this mannei
that notwithjianding all endeavours ti
the contrary, they would 9 hy the help
of Gody he found faithful to themi
Were not thefe gallant fellows i
Wonderful confiant to their Princi-
ples and Profeflions? ^JUightilj
overawed hy the pre fence of God ; Sin*
gle-hearted, and faithful to theil
word r* Yes, by all means , yotii
mull needs fay ; for of fuch as thefe
a great part of the Churches of the
Saints is now compofed. And faith-
ful
the Friendly Debate. 6 ^
ful they were to themfelves ; and that
was enough. Conftant to this prin-
\ ciple, that they were alway in the
right; and what would you have
more? They could Catit ftill in
Scripture language, and therefore
God was not withdrawn from then).
They could fall and pray ftill, and
had a power to turn even the Lords-
day, into a day of Humiliation ; and
therefore the Good Spirit had not
forfaken them. They hated Jnti-
chrifl, that is us ; and were refolved
to burn the flefh of the Whore with
, fire, and fo ftill remained the ^rmy
of the Lord ofhofls. For as if they had
; fome fuch work in hand as the Apo-
ftles had, they call upon all the God-
ly in the nation to fay on their he-
h3.\f, who are fufficient for thefe things^
and to cry aloud for them before the
Throne of Grace, that the Lord him-
felf would appear, and carry on hU work
in their hand. And great reafon there
was to expedt it ; fince they had once
more injur'd thofe, who aflerted his
i caufe ; and done that very thing, for
F which
66 A Continuation of
which ( as they faid, ) he had before
withdrawn his wonted prefence from
them. O the Impudent foreheads of
thefe Men ! O the Sotajhrjefi of the
People, that will be ftill cofened by
fuch like Canters ! Will you never
open your eyes and fee how vain their
pretences to the Spirit are ? Will
you never be convinc'd of their pre-
fumptuous Boaftings , and empty
Confidence ? Will you ftill believe
that thefe men are highly illumina-
ted, who call that darknefs, which
a little while ago was light ; and then
crofs themfelves again, and fay no ;
it is but Darknefs ? Are thefe the
men whom we muft all follow ; who
run, we fee, in an endlefs round of
contradi(5ling their own Profcflions ?
or muft we fliut our eyes, and give
them our hand that they may lead us
whither they pleafe ? Muft we for-
get all that is paft, and believe they
are now pofTeft with an infaHihle Spi-
fit ? This is the thing no doubt, they
defire. We muft refign our belief
to their Declarations. We muft al-
low
i
the Friendly Debate. 67
3W all their Reafons and Excufcs,
^hatfoevcr they be. We mufl:, at
sail, furter them to juftifie them-
slves by thofe very things which ^
hey formerly^ condemn'd ; and fay
ere a word. And then we love them;
hen we favour the people of God ;
hen they have fome hopes of us; and
t's poflible God may have mercy on
:s, though we be out of the way and
iO not follow them.
I know you will fay, that fuch as
OM, are none of the jirmy- Saint s :
;hat you condemn theirPra(fl:ices,and
I ate their leud pretences to Religion
s a great fcandal to it: All which I
erily believe* But;, let me tell yo'j,
jhe Army had a copy fet them of un-
jonftancy and double dealing by
ihofe whom you admired. For there
vas a time when the Lords and Com-
nons could fee fome good in the L/-
ur^y and Government of the Church
;)y Law eftabliflied. Nay more than
hat; they made a Declaration "^ ,'^Ap«-ji. 9.
aufed it to be printed and publiflied
In all Market Towns,^ That they vrouU
F 2 tak^
I
^2 A Continuation of
take away nothing in the one or the o
ther, hut what fhould he evil andjufilj
offenjive, or at leajl unnecejfary am
burdenfome. And yet when they hac
more power, they were of anothe:
mind. Every thing was offenfive
at leaft unneceflary and burdenfome
nothing would ferve but taking awaj
all the CommonPrayer ; and plucking
up Epifcopacy by the very roots. The
reafon, I fuppofe> was, becaufe thi.
became as neceflary to promote thel
Defigns in procefs of time ; as thai
Declaration was at the beginning
If they had refted there, and gone n(
farther , they had loft the hearts o
the moft fpiritual ; who would neve
Beam of ^'^^^ ^^^^ f^^^ ^ gloriow annotnting up
i-'shtby on them from the Lord, as now ap
peared. Now the wcry fifth kingdon
men, could not but fee it , and ac
knowledge it in Print : though i
was not long before they alfo chang'
like all the reft; and had loft th(
fight of this glory, being able to fpj
no UnBion any where upon them
fclyes. For they helpt to profan(
• th<
.the Friendly Debate. 6g
le Crown of thefe annointcd ones,
id caft out the greateftpart of them,
5 if they were but fcum and filth.
;ut I think its belt to trace your win- *
ings and turnings no further; for
^ar they lead us too far out of the
'ay.
A^. C. A good Refolution. Too
\uch of one thing you know is good for
bthing.
C. True. And I think the firft
ingi faid about your pretences of a
[icit Indulgence , is fufficient to
ew, that you are perfecflly like men
i| danger of drowning, who catch
bid indifferently of what comes
itxttohand; be it a naked Sword or
'i[ hot Iron.
\' N,C. Pray make an end of this :
fr you have quite tired me with
^ur Difcourfe. In which you have
'Itgely proved the truth of the corn-
ton talk , that you are of a harfh,
m a bitter and jeering Spirit, and was
fSJacholerick mood when you wrote
'^ur Book.
^^ * C Rather, they that fay fo, prove
F 3 what
70 A Comnuatkm of
what 1 have been faying all this time
that they blow hot and cold out ot*
the fame mouth ; and condemn that
in others which they ailow^ nay,
praife in themfehes. For you (hall
hear them call that Salt and Smarr-
nefs of wit in one whom they lore ;
which is Bitternefs and jeering in him
whom they hate. And that paflcs
for innocent Mirth and Pleafantnefs
in one of their party ; which is Levi-
ty and Frothinefs in one of ours.Nay,
it is Zeal for God and his caufe if you
aggravate the faults of other men, or
ra(hly charge and bring evenafalfc
Accufation againft your Betters : bul
it is malignity of Spirit , hatred d
God and the power of Godlinefs,
we do but tell a plain and true ftori
of your mifcarriages. No man eve
pppofed you refolutely, but you fai<
he raild. No man difcovered you
Partiality and other vices ; but yo
complained of his Bitternefs, an
faid he was in a rage againft you
by this you meant nothing elfe, bi
that 1 write with fome heat and can
eftnd
the Friendly Debate, n\
cftnefs, I would confcfs it, ^nd fay it
is not to be condemn'd. For who can
contend coldly and without affccTti-
on abjuc thofc things , which he
holds dear and precious r* A Politick
pcrfon indeed may write from his
brain (as my hord Bacon I think ob-
ferves ) without any touch or fenfe
on his heart ; as in a fpeculation that
pertains not to him: But a Feeling
Chriftian will exprefs in his words a
Chara(5ter , either of Zeal or Love ;
which you know are warm PafKons.
For my p:::r. I think I haveexpref-
fed both, but nothing at all of wrath
and bitternefs. And therefore :, as
to that cenfure which your Friends
pafs on me, 1 believe he will fpeak a
I great deal truer , that affirms the
! Authors of it were full of choller
, themfelves. Otherwaies,they could
inot but have difcern'd a charitable
fpirit in my writing , and eafily feen,
that the Indignation I exprefled a-
gainft fome vices, is fuch as confift
with Chriftian Meeknefs , and ought
not to be condemned as an unmanly
F 4 Paf.
A Continuation of
Paflion. Do you not find that iWb-
fes was very wroth , when Ifrael com-
mitted a great fin ? and yet his Meek-
nefs is commended above all other
mens. And what think you of St.
p4ul when he calls the Galatians a
foolijh fort of people : and plainly
tells the Corinthians that he could as
well ufe a Rod , as the Spirit of
Meeknefs : and bids Tttm , whom a
little before he warned againft rafii
anger, to rebuke fome perfons fharp-
ly^ Nay what think you of our S'^i;/-
o^rhimfelf? was not he angry at the
hardnefs of the Jevps heart? Mark.-^ .5.
Was he in any fault when he faid to
hisDifciples^ O fools and flow of heart
to believe ? Undoubtedly I m.ay fin-
cerely and heartily love you when I
exprefs a juft Indignation againft
you; and you may as heartily hate
me, when you feemvery gentle and
kindly afJedled toward me. It is pofli-
bleyoumay have met with this fay-
ing out of St. jiujlin , which is ordi-
narily cited by our Writers, and
worth your confideration. It is fo
far
far from being true, that every one that
is angry with others hates them ; that
fometimes he who is not angry , ns
thereby convinced of bearing thegrea-
teft hatred to them. And this al-
fo, / am not to account every one my
Friend that [pares and forbears me ;
nor every one my enemy that feverely
correSls and lafJ^es me, Befides ;
there are fome of fuch a nature, that
nothing but fharp dealing will do
them good. 7 hey are like knotty
Blocks , which require more Wedges ,
and harder blovps alfo to drive them
home. If he that undertakes them
(faith Mr. Corn. Eurges ^ , once fa- "pfreofthe
mous among you) jhall dally, and^^^^,'X'
not flrike home with all his might, he
Jhall find the wedge about his Jhins.Thcy
will rage the more confidently when
they fee he favours them ? They will
think he fears and ftands in awe of
them, and fo flie in his face with the
greater fury. I have never found
any thing truer than this ; that to
fpcak fome men fair, is but to make
them
them have a better opinion of them-
felves. They never thank you for
your gentle and tender ufage ; for
they imagine their Merit extorts it
from you. W hatfoever Favour you
fhew them, it is not imputed to your
kindnefs , but their own defervings :
and they perk up the higher in their
own Conceit, becaufe you have fuch
regard to them. That they may
know themfelves therefore; they
muft not be ftroaked , but fmitten ;
you muft not gently jogg, but rough-
ly fliake them ; if you intend to a-
waken them. If you would not have
them footh themfelves up in their
fins; you muft openly dete(fl and dif-
cover them. If you would have them
fee the greatnefs of their Offences ,
you muft boldly reprove them, and
tear in pieces all their pretences and
excufes whereby they feek to hide
them. And as long as you are truly
charitable, and allow all that is good
in them ; they may fee , if they be
not perfectly blinded with a too
fond Love of themfelves , that you
are
the Friendly Deb Me. -75
are a Friend to them, though an ene-
my to their vices. For (toufethe
words of a famous Writer ) as the
coldeft and fierceft winds areobfer-
ved to grow mild and gentle by paf-
fing through temperate Regions : fo
do fevere and fliarp Reproofs pertake
of the naturc^of him that gives them,
an^'lofe part of their aufterity when
they are managed with Prudence and
charity.
It is a very good Old faying , Love
thy neighbor ^yet pull not down thy hedge.
We will be kind to you, but yet
make you to kpow your Bounds. We
will not fufiPer you to ingrofs to your
party , the name and reputation of
Godlinefs. You fliall not pafs for
the only nice and tender Confcienc'd
men, nor be thought moreConfci-
entious than you are. Nor will we
fuffer you if we can help it, to pull
down the Fence that is about our
Church ; thofe wife and wholefomc
Laws that are made for its Safety and
Security. Too much civility to
you, doth but make you prefumptu-
CU5.
o A tmummon oj
ous. You only take Occafion to
grow more bold and licentious ; if in
fome things we commendyour ftricSl-
nefs, but winkat your faults. And
therefore wemufttell you your own
(as we commonly fpeak) and let the
deluded people know, how Ignorant,
how Superftitious , hdw Defective
you are in a great number of Ghri-
ftian duties; whilft you imagine
your felves the moft knowing, the
moft holy people in the world. If
you be angry at this and callitbit-
ternefs, it is no more than I expell-
ed from many of you. Fora gaU'd
horfe^ 1 know, loves not to be curried y
and a guilty confcience loves not to be
reproved. Let us go about the one
or the other with never fo much cau-
tion, they will be fure to winch.
Though the neceflity be great and
our charity much, it is all one; they
have no mind to be touched. Now
how necefTary and feafonable thofe
InftruClions were that I gave you ,
I leave others to judge who are im-
partial. And as for the manner of
^ de^
the Friendly Debate . n -r
delivering them ; (hew me any thing
in my Book that bites , but only
Truth ; and I will knock out its
teeth : Which if you think I have
iharpened too much ; I aflure yo\i,
it was only to give you a quicker
fenfe of your Errors. All the Salt
you may fancie in it, was intended
only to feafcn you , but not to fret
you at all.
N. C. You can make fmooth and
handfome Apologies for any thing.
But ftudy as long as you will to
blanch the matter, they will believe
your tooth is black : and that your
voice indeed may be the voice of J^/-
co^,but your hands the hands oiEfau:
as hairie and rough as a Satyre,
C. You are marvelloufly witty.
And as I have heard you commend a
fandiified wit y fo it feems there is a
fdnBified fcurrillity ; and one of you
may rail with good Approbation, pro-
vided he do it in Scripture phrafes.
N. C. What ailes you to talk in
this Fafhion i Have I given you any
occafion ?
...^ C, Since
A Continuation of
C. Since you will not be fatisfied,
but ftill complain of bitternefs and
RcproriChes; It is* fit to let you
know, that you of all other men
fliould not fpeak a word of this ;
which you have been fo notorioufly
guilty of your felves. You are
perfeflly like the Friar, who de-
cldirnd againfi Stealingy when he had a
pudding in his Jleeve
N.C, Good Sir, fay no more; For
1 fee the more we ftir in this bufinefs,
the worfe it will be.
C You fpeak modeftly : But let
the ifliie be what it will, you Ihall
give me leave, now we have begun;
to fpread fome oi the Dung that you
have thrown in our Faces. And I
(hall the rather undertake it, becaufe
it will ferve another purpofe. For it
will plainly demonftrate where your
people learnt ail their reviling Lan-
guage '^ and that your Minifters have
been fo far from reproving them for
it, that iu truth they taught them
how to blafpheme , and put thofe
very words into their mouths ,
which
the Friendly Debate. 7P
which now they belch out againft
us.
K- C, I had rather believe you up-
on your word, than be troubled with
fuch fluff
C. No, I will not be fo much be-
holden to you. But Knee you are fo
goodnatur'd, youfhallnot be trou-
bled with much of it. Let me only
intrcat you to perufe two or three of
i your Authors. Firft , there is a
I Book intituled A looking gla(i for Ma-
lignantSy writ by one of your ancient
Minifters, Mr Vicars 'y the famous
' Author of your Parliamentary Chro-
nicle, called, God in the Mount, In
which he treats our Clergy and peo-
ple with the wonted civilities, that
your rude People now beftow upon
us. He begins with the Archb. of
Canterbury y whom he calls a Curfl cowy
or rather a r ageing fat Bull of Baflian :
vphofe hearty he faith, was more hard
and Adamantine than a nether MUfione,
and moft extreamly cauteriz'dyycaftig-
matizd with the hotteft Iron of mofi de-
fter ate Impemtency And having thus
expreflcd
8o A Continuation of
expreffed his refpedts and charity to
him ; then he greets our inferiour
Minifters by the name of Baal-
Priefisy Topi[h fons of Belial: and
makes it an admirable piece of Divine
Providence , that the Souldiers who
went again^ Scotland ( before our
Wars ) /hould have their hearts over-
ruled hy God, and their Spirits ordered
to plunder and terrify thofe fcandalous
Baal'Priefis. As for the People that
followed the King, he calls them
Marble- hearted Malignant Sy implaca-
hie and inveterate haters ofHolyne(?;
that were for meer formal Froteflan-
tifm at large, which U in ejfeB down^
right Atheifm, This excellent Trea-
tifewas licenfed by Mr. John White
who was himfelf fuch another Revi-
ler; and called our Minifters by the
fame names ; nay far worfe : not on-
ly Priefis of Baal, but oi Bacchus and
Priapm. And though you may ima-
gine he fpeaks only of thofe particu-
lar men whom he put into his Centu-
ries, He will inform you otherwife
if you look into his Epiftle before
the
the Friendly Debate. 8 i
the firft of them.VVhich he put forth,
as he tells us, for this erfd that the
EWorld might fee nhat rndfiner ofperfons
our Clergy he. As if there was no
diflFerence ; but the People wer(J to
judge of all the reft, by thofe fto-
ries which were told of fome. And
truly, fo they did, and fo they do to
this day.
N. C. I never obferved thefe things.
But you muft confider that this Vi-
cars was old, and fo might be tefty :
For no man well advifed lure would
approve of that diforderly acftibn of
theSouJdicrs, much lefs make God
the Author of it.
C. I remember indeed Mr. Bur-
roughs "^ wonders that fo old a Pro- » vindic.
feffoT of Religion as he fhould he found g'J^Gan^^^;
jeering andfcorning at it, ( for he caft
fome reproaches on his way ) and can
find noexcufefor it, but the infirmi-
ties that fometime attend an old Age.
But as for that adlion of the rudd
Souldiers, I remember very well, it
is applauded by M.Cafe, in a Book
licenfedby the fnmeMr. H'/;/>^ Juns
G 27,
82 AContinmtion of
27. 1542. called Gods waiting to be
gracioiis, &c. Where he makes this
one of their Incouragements to ex-
pe<5l thefallofE^^^/of/, becaufe God
had fo vponderfuUy wrought upon the
Spirits of men, particularly on thofe
fouldiers, who went, he faith, to ftght
the Bijhops Battles in Scotland ; that
they pulCd down the Railes, Threatned
the Priefisy and kept fuch a Vijitation
in their progrefi, as the Bijhops hardly
ever had done fince ^ueen Elizabeths
dayes. This he faith, p. 119. was
the Finger of God, the work of him
that created the Spirit of man.
N.c, You tell me News.
C. It's very ftale. But no news at
all to us who are well acquainted
with their pitiful way of arguing. And
1 heartily wifli your Minifters would
ferioufly confidler, upon this occafi-
on, thefe two things. Firft, how
wretchedly they were wont to reafon,
and how they abufed the poor people,
by incouraging them to draw the
greatefi hopes from the Jlightefi
grounds. For what Connexion is
there
the Friendly Debate, 8 3
there between thefe two things ? The
diforderly Souldiers were uncivil to
our Minifters, and prophaned our
Churches as they went into thcNorth,
therefore the fall oiBabjlon is near at
hand ? It is juft like the reafoning of
Mr. Henderfon who told the Parlia-
ment that the Fajl which they kept on
^t* Johns day^wa^ aprefage that by the » sermon
hleffing of God on theirs and the JJfem- ^q^^;^^'
hlies proceedings y the Superflitionofcb-
ferving Chriftma^ jhould flwrtly expire,
I and that it vpoa at its I afigajp. As if one
fhould fay,there was a folemn Faft in-
dicfted(as they fpeak)in the Church of
Scotland on the fecond Lords day mSep,
1542. for the promotingUnity inReli-
gion,& Uniformity in Government: "^ ' Wiea.
& theOfficers of the Army at Walling- fignants%
ford houfe turned that Feftival again '^fr^?"^;^,
into a day of Humiliation ; therefore '^^^•
that foJemn remembrance of Chrifts
Refurre(fl:ion fliall fliortly ceafe, and
Chriftianity fall to the ground.
N.C^ I am afhamed of the incohe-
rence of fuch Difcourfcs.
C. So fhould they be too? and do
G 2 pub-
gA A Continuation of
publick pennance for it. As alfo for
their grofs hypocrifieand partiality
in aflfuming a power to themfelves,
Icfs than which they condemn
in other men. Forthej^ may turn
it fecms a Fefiival of our Lords ap-
pointing into a Fafl; but we may
not make a Fefiival in honour of him.
I would defire them alfo to confider
in the fecond place, whether their
Connivance at, nay, their Approba-
tion of fuch things as were done
without any Authority ; I may add,
their praifing the blind zeal of pri-
vate men who took upon them to be
Reformers; and, more than that,
their imputing it to the work of the
Spirit and the mighty power of God ;
did not help to embulden the Army
afterward to do thofe things which
they themfclves abhorr'd ; with a
perfwafion that they were moved by
the Spirit , and had a call from the
Lord, though no Authority from
men ? It is a thing much to be laid to
heart, and then honeftly to be con-
ftfled ; and publickly bewailed. And
when
the Friendly Debate. 85
when we fee them To humble and
finccreasto tnkefhame to themfelvs
for what they have done ; we fhall
all have the better opinion of them.
N. C. I hope thefe fpeeche* may
be imputed to the rafhnefsofa few
men ; at leaft they were not approv-
ed by any Authority.
c. Think you fo i How came Mr,
Wilfons Sermon then before the Par-
liament to be printed by their Order,
z8 S'^/7M642. In which he calls the
Clergy about the King, Croaking
Frogs that crept into Kings Cham-
bers : m^o are known hy the gutter
( there he thought lay a jeft ) whence
they come ; out of the mouth of the Dra-
gon, out of the mouth of the Reafi and
thefalfe Prophet, They are the ^irits
of Devils which go forth unt9 the Kings
of the Earth to gather them to battle,
&c. Ihe Frogs head « like their Caps
[Quadrata ranarum Capita J Here
if work for the Parliament, that the
King may have no more Croakers in his
Chambers,
And here ( I may add, ) is a tail: of
G 3 youf
Z6 "A CmtimaHon oj
your fanBified wit, or rather, devout
Railing ; though borrowed, alas !
in great part from Parous on the Re-
velation.
JSf.c. You take things in the
worfe part, when you hear or read
our Sermons.
C, You would have faid, perhaps,
if you had read Mr. Vicars, that to the
hearing of the Word there came at weU
ears of Scorn, as ears of Corn, For
fureyou could not but have remem-
bred fuch an admirable piece of wit
as this, which you may find in his
Epiftle to the Reader.
NX, We do not regard Wit,
nor pretend to it,
C. It is not becaufe you do not
love it. For according to the Pro-
verb ; John would wipe hU Kofe if he
had it,
i\Z. C. There is wit in picking a
lock ; but it is better to let it alone.
And therefore 1 will not vie Proverbs
with you.
C You are juft like the Gentle-
men we are fpeaking of, who do
things
the Friendly Debate^, 8 j
things and know it not : nay then do
them, when they fay they will not.
Mr. W, Bridges for inftance, reproves
the Loyal Convert for ill language,
and tells him he feems in vain to bs
Religious if he refrain not his tongue:
when as he himfelf had, juft before ,
let his tongue loofe in a moft riotous
manner againft us ; Telling him that
the Cathedrals rrere a N'efi and Cage of
all unclean Birds y a harbour of dumb
DogSf proud Prebends, and a crew of
Ale-fvrilling Singing men: And that
they came daily to offer near the Holy
Tablet the blind Whelps of an Ignorant
Devotion 'y of which one may fay, a4 tht
jipoftUy the things which the Heathen
offer infacrifice to their Idols, they offer
them to Devils and not to God. Nay,
as if his tongue was fet on fire of Hell
and could not be tamed, immediately
after he had given that caution out of
S.James, befalls into a rage again;
and in a moft nafty manner compares
our Prelates to Swine lying in their
Ordure. For he faith Hogfly-Prela-
tical had been firept but tvice jhice the
G 4 Can-
88 'A Continuation of
Conquefi, and the Temple oijerufd-
lent three times in the 3. years of our
Saviours Miniftry. What office he
dcfign'd himfelf in this fweetworki
cannot tell ; nor how you will ex-
cufe this favoury language ; unlefs
it be fufficient to fay, that he railed
by Fnllick Authority,
NXc\ abominate fuch Refor-
mers: and think they deferved to
keep Hoggs, rather than feed the
Sheep of Chrift.
C. I am glad to hear you fay fo :
And hope you as much adhor Mr.
Hughes his Reproaches, who fayes,
the Common-Prayer may he likened fit'
ly to the abomination of Defolation
fianding in the holy place.
N.c, By what you told me before,
I could expecft no better from him ;
whom I think worthy to have been
preferred to the fame office with the
pther.
C. But you would expedl better
language, would you not? from two
fuch Holy men as Mr. Alliny and Mr.
Shepheard, the famous New-England
Preachers ? N.C
' the Friendly Debate. 8p
N. c. They fure were more Con-
fcicntious than to utter any foul
fpeeches.
c\ Yet they tell you, the Englijh
Service-Book hath Hunk above ground
twice 40. year, in the "noflrils of the
godly, nho breathed tn the pure air of
Scripture, Defence of the 9. politi-
ons. p. 61.
i\r.c. No more of this Noifom
language^ I bcfeech you: which is
enough to poifon the Air we breath
in.
C. As it hath done already : and fo
diffufed its venome among your peo-
ple, that they are generally infccfled
with this PJague. Nay, they not
only do fuch things themfelves, but
take pleafure in them that do them.
Witnefs all the filthy reproaches
they beftow upon our Divine Ser-
vice, Clergy, and People: and the
great fatisfacftion and applaufe
wherewith the late Cobler of Glocefters
writings were lately entertained, even
by thole whom you efteem Religious.
This flicws what manner of fpirit
I you
9 o A Contimatim of
you arc of, and that your people arc
in danger to deprive themfelves of all
fenfe of true Religion : to pave their
own hearts, an4 make them like the
high-way ; through which all things
may pafs without any diflference
( fave only a few innocent Ceremo-
nies ) even whole Cart-loads of dung
and filth. And of the very fame fpi-
rit, I mufl: tell you, this fort of Re-
ligious people have ever been. For
Martin Marprelate, with whofc De-
vil this man was pofleffed ; was re-
ceived with the like Applaufe, and
his Writings fo thumb'd, that they
vpere even worn out, with continual
reading and handling of them. If you
will not believe me; yet I hope you
will truft Mr. Brightman whofe
words thefe are ; as you may fee if
you look into his Comments on the
3. Kev. ly. p, 49. of the Englifli
Edit, where fpeaking of the Naked-
nefs of Laodicea ( i. e. in his opinion,
the Church of England ) he makes this
an Argument of it, that this man
had poured fuch great contempt and
fliame-
the Friendly Debate. ' 9 1;
Ihameful reproach upon it, which is
the meaning of her being Naked.
There wa4 one, faith he, that called
himfelfhy the name of t^lar-prelate ,
who/it forth a Book wherein he dealt
fomewhat roundly vrith the AngeL How
vpere thofe hitter jefts of hti favoured
among the People ? Horp plaufihle were
they in a manner to all men ? How wil-
lingly and greedily \ with what great
mirth were they every where entertain-
ed ? There ii nonefo rude and unfkilful
hut pondering that time in hif mind,
would fay thus to himfelf, and that not
without caufe ; Truly f the Lord hath
poured out contempt upon Princes'/
thofe that honour him doth he honour,
and thofe that dejpife him, /hall he de-
/pifed. He hath made our Priefts con-
temptible to the whole People, hecaufe
they have broken their Covenant, You
may read what follows there if you
think good : For it is a great De-
monftration, how well thofe peopb
were inftrudted in the Chriftian Re-
ligion ; and what rare Devifes you
have been taught to blind your eyes
that
A Continuation of
that you may not fee your fins. For
you mayjpe^k evil ; and re Joyce in ini-
quity ; and fport your felvcs in he-
holding your Fathers Nakednefs ; and
fancy all the time that you are fulfill-
in^Prephefees, executing the judg^nent
written; and pouring out Vials, likefo
many Angels.
-AT. c. Ifhould think rather this
was the Devil with his followers
fighting flgainft ^JVlichael and his
Angels.
C. And a Devill it was, whom
when you had once raifed, you could
never conjure down again; nor with
all your Prayers and Fallings difpof-
fefshim. l^ay, this foul Spirit grew
in time fo outragious that he flew at
laft in a foaming manner in your own
faces. Which is a thing fo remarka-
ble, that I cannot but put you in
mind of it : how you were ferved in
your kind ; and felt the tongues of
men fliarpned againft yourfelves,
which you had whetted to wound the
reputation of others. No fooner
had you pull'd down the Bi/hops,
whom
the Friendly Debate^. 93
whom you had laid low before by
fuch fellows as that ^Martin-Mar-
prelate : but out comes ^Tartins-Ec-
^Ao which return'd all thofe Reproa-
ches upon Presbytery. Baal, Baby ^
lotty Egypt, and all the reft of thofe
Hcathenifli names were prefled to
war againftj^'ow, which you had made
to ferve againft uf. Presbytery was
called a Limb of jintichrifl : a tyran-
nical Lordly Government ; a worfe
bondage than that under the Bi/hops ;
a bondage under taskmafiers , like
thofe over Ifrael in Egypt. Nay that
Very Mouth which reviled our
Church, now reviled yothr intended
Reformation. Mr. Burton himfelf,
whom your people had fo much ad-
mired, and brought home with fuch
joy and triumph, that you fancyed
(as I ihalltell you before we have
done ) that day to be the KefurreBion
of the Witneffes ; beftowed thofe cen-
fures on Presbyterial Government :
which he faid ^ would bring lu under* duxXo^iq
perpetual Jlavery y vforfe than either}^^^^"^'^-
Egypt or Babylon. Deformity.
And
P4 -^ Conmmtion of
And in the very fame terms where-
in you had rail'd againft our Priefis,
we heard the Sectaries railing a-
gainft your Presbyters : whom they
called Romi[h bloody Priefis , Black
Coats y Diviners and Southfayers ;
Croaking Frogs ; the Devils jigents;
Penfioners to the accufer of the Bre-
thren, Nay, the Ajfemhly it felf we
were told had two horns like a Lamh,
hiit a mouth like a Dragon, teaching
the Parliament to [peak hlafphemy a-
gainfi the Saints that dwell in heaven.
Your Uniformity alfo was as much
difgraced as oars; and ftiled the
idw.Gangr.^^^^^^ o/ /^^ Saint s , the bondage of
part.p.2i2 t/j^ Church, the firaightning of the Spi-
rit , the limiting ofChrifi ; and the ec-
clipfing of the glory of the Father. Nay
it is pretty to obferve, how the very
itMyjlery of Iniquity, you had fo long
complain'd on, was now found work-
ing among you. Uniformity , Mr.
Saltmarjh Cxid, was a peice of it. And
Mr. DeH ( in his Epiftle before his
Sermon of Right Reformation, prea-
ched before the Parliament) calls
Pres-
the Friendly Debate . 9 5
Presbytery, a new form of that my fiery
of intofuity , which had been fo long a
working. The Beaft, they held, had
only chang'd ks fhapc, and taken
another name , and fo they bAiced it
moft fiercely as you had taught them:
And told you in zffc£k , what the
Proverb fays, that Gocfe, and Gander,
and Go fling, are three founds, but one
thing. But they would not part
with you thus ; for after they had
done with this, then they fell upon
your darling, the Solemn League and
Covenant, This became a brand of
infamy , a Cains mark almofi (as Mr.
Cafe td\s us ^) fo that if they would .^^^^^^^^
fiigmatize a man topurpoje, they would scj-'n.for
fay , He ? He is a Covenanter, As cheitcr.p,
you had told us that we made an Idol ^^'
of the Common-Prayer ; fo Mt. Peters
told you publikely in a Sermon at the
Three Cranes, that you keptfuch aftir
about the Covenant , as if you would
have the people make an Idol of it,
Mr. Feak alfo called it, the great Idol
of the two Kingdo7ns. And fo fit had
this word been found to do fervice ;
that
9 5 A Contimation of
that at laft one told us , that you had
got two Idols for our one. For the
Parliament and the Pulpit y faid an
^ Outlandijh Gentleman ( imitating
the language of the times,) are the
two great Idols of the people, the grea-
teft that ever were. For it's held a
kind of blafphemy to fpeak againft
the one ; and the whole Body of Re*
ligion is nail'd to the other. It comes
to my mind alfo, how you who joyn'd
in the out- cry es againft MalignantSy
were numbred, in conclufion^among
them : and faid 'to be grown to a re-
fined Malignancy ; but that there was
no greater difference between a
Presbyter and a Prelate y than be-
tween an half Crown piece, and two
fhillings and fix pence. And as your
good friend Mr. Vicars had told us
that God had made us to be ^^^ z^'^ry
drudges and Scul-hoyes of his Church
and children. So Mr. Peters ia good
time told you (in a Pamphlet of his)
that the Presbyterians were no better
than Gibeonites y who might help to
hew flone and fqu are timber for a more
glorious building, N.C. Wi 11
th Friendly Debate. 97
N. C. Will you never have done ?
C, You muft let me remember
you what a mighty clamor you raifed
againft the Bilhops , as if they had
been fo many Ijhmaels that perfccu-
ted Gods Ifaacs : and you have not
forgot fure how oft you were called
yourfelves, the Carnal feed, theflejh-
ly children ; theperfecutorj of the chil-
dren of the free woman. For your
Minifters that accufed the BifhopS
(and made it a main part of their Re-
monfirance to the houfe of Commons in
the beginning of the Wars)that they
had put fome who were but Serving-
men into Orders , and made them
Minifters : favv in a little time a
whole fwarm of vile creatures (no-
thing fo good as Servingmen) making
themfelves Minifters, andfettingup
for the moft Gofpel-preachers. And
there was no remedy : but all their
preaching and printing , and petiti-
oning againft it was defpifed. Thefe
taught the people to call th^m blind
Guides , as they had taught them to
call our Priefis. N av, their Matters
H at
p8 A Continuation of
at laft incouraged and rewarded the
feoffs of thofe that faid, Ihefe blind
Guides travailing as they thought to
Sion , are fain into the ditch in the IJle
of Wight, Infatiahle hirelings y GehaztSy
cheaters, pulpited Divines , and a gieat
lurry of fuch like names were libe-
rally dealt to them ; as you may fee,if
you will not believe me, in their own
complaint,called ^iSeafonahle hxhor-
tation, p, 11, Nay the Army it felf
which had been fo inftrumental in all
this wickednefs , and magnified by
thefe revilers as the jirmy of the
Lamh; at laft heard themfelves cal-
led, the Abomination of Defolation,
All which I mention only for this
end : to fhew what your Minifters
got by inftrudling the people in this
cafie Art of difgracing all they dif-
lik'd, with the names o£^ntichriJli'
an, Babylonijh and fuch like. As they
had done^fo they were requited. And
while the Epifcopal Clergy filently
bore the punifhment of their fins ;
they that had caft out their names as
abominable, were whipt with their
own
the Friendly Debate. pp
own rdds. When they thought to
re{^rj 04 kings without U6 ; immediate-
ly they were aflaultcd as Egyptian
'tyrants : when they expedted all
fhould bow to the Scepter ofChrifl in
their hand , they faw men rifing up
againfl: them as Antichriftian. Thofc
that had heard their Invecftives a-
gainft us , imploy'd them againft
themfelves. And ail the Dung they
had laid at our doors , was flung by
thofe that had been their followers, in
their own faces. If I were indued
with the Spirit of Mr. Vicars or Mr.
CafeyX Ihould have faidupon this occa-
don.Behold the Finger ofGod\ the Work
of him that created the Spirit of man !
See how the Lord over-ruled mens
hearts ; and ordered thetr Spirits to
terrific thefe Presbyters. Or Mr,
Brightman would have taught me to
fay, The Lord hath made your Prie/is
contemptible to the whole people, he-
caufe they have broken their Covenant.
But I dare not imitate their boldnefs,
nor talk as if I was infallible, I will
let them enjoy this particular gift to
H 2 them-
'A Contimmon of
themfelves , of knowing wh!it God
doth upon the fpirits of men. For
my part, I think they might be able
to fay all this , even without any ex-
traordinary help of the Devil. There
was no need that Beelzebub fliould
come to infpire them with this fury :
For they were already poflfeffed with
a mighty Rage. That Spirit which
fpoke out of the Prefs and Pulpit:,
had abundantly furniflit them with
this powerful and taking Rhetorick,
And if Mr. Brightman had lived to
that day ; he would have wondred to
fee, how near of kin his Heat was to
this Fire. Nay, he would have been
afhamed of his rare way of reafon-
ingagainft our Church, when he had
heard fome retort his words againft
us, upon the Philadelphians (I mean
Difciplinarians ) faying ; Truly, the
Lord hath powred contempt upon
Princes : Thofe that honour him,
doth he honour; and thofe that de-
fpife him fhall be defpifed.
jind thus I have at laji opened this
rotten Ulcer (I hope you will not be
an-
the Friendly Debate: loT
angry if I ufe his words'^) If my la- "^ in ^.Rey.
hour {hall be acceptable , and the fore end "^
being purged , he healed again ; how
great thanks [hall I return to God ? But
if the evil jhall he only ftirred up, and
the handling of it Jhall offend the fick
and fore parties ; / will yet comfort my
felf with the confcience of the good dip
charge of my Duty, and^with theordi^
nary reward of a Phyfician,
-AT. C. Difcharge of your duty ?
youfliould fay difgorging yourCho-
ler and Gall. Nay, they will never
believe if they hear what you now
Difcourfe ; but that you wrote out
of meer malice , on purpofe to dif-
grace them ; and that you deferve the
reward of fuch Phyficians as kill
more than they cure.
C How came they by this faculty
of fearching the heart ?
N. C. How came you to ask this
queftion ?
C. I forgot my fclf. Since they
can fee what God doth in the Spirits
of men ; no wonder they can fpy our
thoughts and intentions.
H 3 . .V.C.I
* o a A Continuation of
AT C I meant , that they can fee
by your Book what your intentions
were.
C. So they may. For I told them
plainly in my preface that I intended
only to awaken them to fee their Er-
rors. But it feems their Spirit lookt
into mine when I wrote thofe words,
and could fee my thoughts better
than my felf. Hath tfi B. or his
difciples had fome Revelation about
this matter ?
i\r. C None but what they receiV"
ed from your Book, which contra-
dic5ls, they think, your Epiftle, and
declares the hatred you bear to them.
C, To their Schifmatical fpirit
you fliould have faid. For 1 can fin-
cerely profefs, as Mr. Edwards doth
in another cafe, That I have noperfon-
al quarrel with any of them, no old
r^ef. to grudge y or formef difference ; and
■ tapoog. ^^^^^^^^ had not Truth confirained me,
I had out of refpeB and love to fome of
them, forhorn to fay any thing of thefe
matters. ''And therefore let not
'' my Book by reafon of its truth and
'^ plain-
the Friendly Delate. 103
<< plainnefs be branded for a bitter,
^^ railing and malitious Writing:
^' But let tbcm confider that they
*^ need fuch fi Book as doth not flat-
''ter and extol them , but be plain
*^ and free with them. For the truth
" is (as he goes on) they have been
** too much Hatter'd , both in their
*' Perfons and Churches ; and are
^^-undone for want of being plainly
^' and freely dealt withall. A Candle
" hath been too long held to them ;
'^ I hope my Book may do them much
'' good , to abate their fwelling and
^^ confidence. And if many of our
"Minifters would deal more plainly
" with them , it would be better both
" for them and us. I remember a
paflage concerning Luther in an
Epiftle of Calvin's to ^Melandlhon
(they are ftill the fame mans words)
which the perfons being changed,
may be fitly applied to my pur-
pofe. If there were that mind in us
alif that ought to. he ; perhaps fome re-
medy might he found. ^And certainly
we tranfmit an unworthy Example to
H 4 pofte-
o^ A Contimation of
pofierity, while we caft away all liberl},
rather than ojfend a few men : WiU not
their vehemency rife and grow the morey
while all heay with them, andfuffer all
things from them ? Undoubtedly it
will. Our bafe filence doth but make
them open their mouths wider to
declaim againft us. We cherifh
their infolent behaviour while we
make no Oppofition and give no
check to their violence. They ima-
gine we allow them to be fo worthy
as they fancy themfelves , while we
fit ftill , and only fee and hear their
Folly. And therefore to fhewthat
we know them , not that we hate
them, I took the Freedom to write
thofe things which you accufe of
Malice.
N. C But , as I told you > they
tend to their Difgrace.
C. No man ought to think himfelf
difgraced by Truth, nor reproached
by juft Reproof. He fliould rather
think he diflionors himfelf, a thou-
fand times more , by ftill perfifting
in his Errors, and juftifying his
faulty.
the Friendly Dehate] 105
faults. And if you refolve upon this
Courfe, and feek rather to caft re-
proaches on us than amend your
felves ; I doubt not it will turn at
laft to youi^ greater difgrace , and
make you more vile in the efteem of
all indifferent men.
iV. C. Affure your felf you had
better have been otherwife imploy'd,
and never have meddled in this bufi-
nefs.
C. I am not afraid of any evil
Tongue, nor of any thing elfe that
man can do unto me : But, as your
Mr. Cartwright once faid, am of Al-
cibiades his mind ; who, trufting to
the power of Truth , when one lift
up his ftafT ready to fmite him if he
would not ho)d his peace , boldly re-
ply ed, Smite me, fo thou wilt hut hear
me,
N. C. No, they will not fmite,
but they will defend themfelves.
C. With all my heart. But be
you afTured , as he faid in another
cafe, their heels will fooner ake with
kicking againft the prick:, than it
fuffcr
105^ A Continuation of
fuffer any hurt, by receiving their
broken and ftrengthiefs Refiftance.
M.C. You are very warm, and
confident.
C. To tell you the very truth I
have long obferved in the fiery men
that oppofe our Church, a llrange
Pride and conceit of the godlinefs of
their own party beyond all reafon ;
together with a moft fiiameful de-
fpifalofus, as if our Piety were lit-
tle or none at all. This moved my
Indignation: and it will ftir, I think,
the fpirit of any honeft and cordial
Chrifl:ian,to read fuch haughty Cen-
fures as thefe from the mouth of your
moft famous Divines. That the Bi-
/hops are a generation of the Earth ;
earthly, and favour not the things ofQod.
They are the words of Mr. Paul
Baines, approved by no lefs man than
D. jimesy who is pleafed to add in
his great modefty, that there vpos as
much agreement between them in theix
management of Religion ( except two
or three)and their powerfulPreacherSydHs
between the light which comes down from
Heaven,
the Friendly Debate. lO-j
Heaven, and that thick mijl which art-
Jesfrom the lovreflpitt^ And that there
if more of God and hU Religion in fome
one congregation of a flenc'd Miniftery
than in all the BijJms families in Eng-
land, I appeal to all the world whe-
ther I had not reafon to Itomack
thefe proud vaunts, and fcornfal
fpeeches. And whether it wzs not
abfolutely, neceffary to let you fee
the emptinefs and flatnefs ( to fay no
worfe ) of thofe men, who now infult
over us in like manner; and would
bear the world in hand that they are
the only powerful Preachers, who
alone favour the things of God.
N.C, You have only cull'dafew
fayings out of one or two Books
C, They ftiould have thankt me
for that. And might have feen if
they pleafed, by that moderationf
that 1 was not dcfirous to publifh
their (hame more than needs: but
ftudied their amendment by difclofe-
ing a little of their folly, and con-
cealing the reft. If they will not be-
lieve but that I did my worft, and re-
vealed
io8 A Continuation of
vealed all I knew ; let them but fig-
nify this diftruft of my Charity, and I
fliall give them abundant fatisfadlion.
Mr. T W. I am fure hath no caufe to
complain, who with fo much labour
brings forth childifli fancies, and is
fo curious to fpeak abfurdly, and
takes fo much care to avoid ferious
and folid fenfe in the moft weighty
Arguments, that his great Pains; is
confpicuous in thefe Defedls. Of
this 1 did but give a fmall taft, and
that, not out of the worft of his con-
ceits; which he ought to look upon as
the Civility of a Friend, and not as
the want of skill in an enemy. As
forMr, W.B, I confefs ingenuoufly,
I faid a little the more of him , be-
caufe you have been too long guU'd
by fuch pretenders to Myfteries and
Spirituality. Yet I do not think I
faid enough, but ought to have told
you plainly, thathclsoneofthe prin-
cipdl Impoflors that have perverted the
Truth as it is in Jefus, and adulterated
the Chriftian Religion in this Nation.
He fpoiies almoft all the Holy Scrip--
ture
the Friendly Debate'. log
ture he meddles withal ; and turns it
into an idle tale of thefe times, and
makes it fay whatfoever it plcafes
him and his Profelytes to hear.
Which when J ferioufly confider, I
cannot but fay with a little alteration
as one doth, on another occafion,
to his Countrymen. ^'That it is a
*^ fliame there are laws againft thofe
*' who counterfeit CoyneSj, and fal-
*^ fify Merchandizes ; yet fuch are
*^ permitted who Sophifticate our
" Divinity, and corrupt the Holy
^' Scriptures, and turn our Religion
'^ into a new fancy and device of their
*' own. The late^r^^^ JPlague is but
"offmall confideration in compare
'* with this mifchief ; and if fpeedy
^^ order be not taken, the multiply-
'^ ing of fuch Authors will make a
'* Liibrary as big as London, wherein
^' there fliall fcarcely be found one
" wife Sentence, or reafonable Con-
[' ceit.
i\r. C. It's thought Sir by fome
that you are much miftaken in mak-
ing him the Author of that Book
which
no A Continuation of
which you reprove, fince it bears
only the two firft Letters of Mr.
Bridge his name. And I have heard
you blam'd for charging him with
thofe things which he hath not
ownU
C, I think rather thofe Apologifls
aremiftaken. For why doth he not
difown it, if it be not his Book ; fince
it contains fuch dangerous things?
Or why did not the Preface to ano-
ther Eook^fince ftoln into the world
and carrying his name in the front of
it, inform us that this was genuine,
and the other Spurious? But if he
had, there are very few that would
have believ'd him. For they are as
like each other, as two pieces of
Cloth, that are of the fame Wool,
the famx thred^, the fame colour,
working and bredth. There is the
very fame Canting in both ; the fame
abufe of Holy Scripture, the fame
Spiritual pride and contempt of
others, the fame evil fpeaking and
feditious Dodlrines ; and in one word,
the way and Spirit of Mr. Bridge.
NX.'
the Friendly Debate . ' 1 1 1
N'C. Why do you jeer? I know
you allude to the Title of one of thofe
Ten Sernions, which he calls, the
Wdy and Spirit of the New Teftament,
C' I do fo : ^And am better able to
defcribe his way and Spirit, than he
to fet out that.
iV. C. I think you had better for-
bear fuch Gomparifons.
C. Pray let me try a little. It will
both divert us a while , and not prove
unprofitable. Turn I pray you to ^
the fifth Set mon, at your leifure ; and '^'^*
tell me when you have compared our
Conceits, whether of us do better.
Firft, I fay, the way and Spirit of
Mr. Bridge, ii not ( as he would have
it ) 4 Childlike, hut a Childijh Spirit.
A way and Spirit that hath nothing
manly; nothing of the ancient Chri-
lian fcnfe and Spirit in it : but a-
jounds with Phrafes, trifling obfer-
vations, and perpetual Tautologies :
And yet thinks it felf moftgorgeouf-
ly bedeck't with GoJ}^el Truths, Dif-
!?enfations, Manifeftations, Difcove-
riesy and 1 know not how many other
glorious things befides. Second-
^112 A Continuation of
Secondly, it is not a fearing, but ti
fearlefi Spirit; dareing to talk of
God and our Saviour in the boldeft
and rudeft terms, taking a kind of
Pride in inventing new and mon-
ftrous Expreffions; and fpiritualiz-
ing Religion into airy fancies.
Thirdly, The way and Spirit of
Mr. B, is not an underflanding, hut a
Non-fenfical Spirit, An inftance of
which is this, that it hath no certain
rule whereby to meafure the love of
God. But fometimes it made fuc*
cedes a great argument of Gods re-
gard to them ; and now it tells us
that the Crofles are a mark of it, and
that theChildren of God muft be per-
fecuted by the World.
Fourthly, The way and Spirit of
Mr. B. if to trade much, or mo(i, or
altogether with fancies and Dreams.
N, c. Pray do not fay fo.
C. You may put it in other words
if you pleafe, and fay it trades with
ahfolute Fromifes. But thats the
fame ; for they are no better than
dreams and fancies.
Fifthly,
the Friendly Dehatt. 113
Fifthly y In the old time men exa-
mined and confidered what they believ-
ed ; and came to Faith by rational dif-
zourfe ; But now in the dayes of Mr,B.
Men are taught to believe they know
not why, and Keafon u decry ed 04 en-
mity to the things of God,
Sixthly^ In the old time Chrifti-
ans were oi^modefi and humble Spirit'^
but the way of Mr. B. u to teach them
to he high and confident ; and to ima-
gine great Difcoveries and Revelati-
ons to be made to them. And there*
fore they wrong'd Mr. Edwards very
much, when they faid his Gangr^na
was full of lyes, becaufe he told
ftrange ftories of men that pretended
to have had Revelations, and feen
Vijjons : for we find Mr. J5. is one of
them.
Seventhly, In the old time Humili-
ty, Purity, Righteoufnefs and Cha-
rity were held to be things moft dear
to God;but now in the way and Spirit
of Mr. B. <ve can hear no tidings of
them. For he can tell us but of three
things that are dear to him> His Peo-
I pie,
1 1 ij. A Continuation of
pie, his Truth, and his Worjhip. Thefe
are his Fl^te, his Jewels, his Trea-
Jure, as I told you thelaft timeout
of one of his Ten Sermons. But you
mull know it is not a new difcovery,
but an old and darling Notion of his ;
which 1 find in his Sermon before the
Parliament, 29. AW 1643. There
he tells us, Thitee things God loaves
more f^ecially, HisFeople, his Truth,
and his worjhip. And it is a beloved
conceit I perceive among the party;
for one of his Brethren delivered it to
Mr.Tiio. the Parliament before him ; and told
S^^oT them in a peremptory manner, ex-
Apr.27. eluding all other things, God hath
1642.P.51. o to ^ .
but three thtngs dear to htm tn the
World ; the Saints, his Worjhip,and his
Truth. But which of thefe he loves
belt he could not tell ; for God there-
fore ordained Saints to he in the World
that he might he Worjhip' t ; and appoin-
ted Ordinances of War/hip, as means to
huild up his Saints, Some honeft old
Ch rift ian would have told this great
Divine if he had heard him ; you
trouble your felf, Sir, about need-
Jefs
the Friendly Debate. 1 1 y
Icfs Queftions: There is fomething
God loves better than all thefc, viz^.
Holynejs, and all Moral Fertue. For
I in truth there are no Saints or people
of God ( but^only in name ) without
thefe. Take away thefe, and the
moft Orthodox Notions that cnn be
in your head, will make you no bet-
ter than a Devil. Nor will the ex-
adleft worfhip, according to the
pureft Ordinances, fail to be an Abo-
mination to the Lord, if thefe be ab-
fent. But I forget my felf. The
way and Spirit of Mr. B. is not to
talk of any thing elfe, hut pure Wor-
Jhip, pure Ordinance^j Gojpel ^Admi-
niflrationsy and fuch like matters;
upon the account of which they e-
fteem themfelves more holy, Spiri*
tual and Evangelical than other men.
And be they never fo bad; alfs one
for that. Mr. B, hath a Rule which
is very comfortable; "^ Humble your'^^^[^'^;,^^^
f elves for fin though it he never fo fmall ;
hut do not quefiionyour condition for any
fin, though it he never [o great. Per-
haps you will fay, I do not under-
I t ftand
11(5 A Continuation of
ftandhim: and truly that's no fuch
great wonder : For, Eighthlj, Where-
as in the old time men wrote and
fpokefo, that one might underftand
what they meant; the way and Spi-
rit of Mr. B. is quite contrary, which
is to fpeak that which he himfelf, I
believe, doth not underftand. Wit-
nefs feveral things I could fliew you
in his Fir ft of the Ten fermons, con-
cerning Love to Chrifis perfonal ex-
celiencies, without re^eSl to his bene-
fits.
Befides this, Ninthly, In old time
they gave good proof for what they
faid ; but the way and Spirit of Mr.
B, is, to put us ojfrpith a loufy Simili-
tude or two ; by which he doth all his
feats.
N.C. Why do you fpeak in this
manner ?
C I have good reafon for that
Epithite, but now it is time to make
an end. And to fay no more but this,
in the old time the way was to demon-
ftrate things either from their Cau-
k%, or from their Effecfls, or from
Tefti-
the Friendly Debate^, 117
Teftimony, according as the matter
would bear: but now it is much, or
mofllyy or altogether the way of Mr. B.
to make a comparifon, and find outfomc
pitiful refemhktncey which pafles for a
good reafon of what he fayes, with
the men of his way and Spirit. Ex. gr»
to prove that an unconverted man
cannot know how full of fin he is, he
will tell you the reafon is hecaufc his
Hoops are on. As a Veffel that is full sinfuin*
of liquor, and the liquor iffues through^^^^^'^'^^
the Hoops ; you fee there is liquor in it,
hut you do not know how full it is, till
the hoops are knocked off: hut then you
will fayy O how full was ijjis Veffel i
Ah now our hoops are on, and it doth not
yet appear how full of fin men are ', only
it comes ijfuing through the hoops ^
through their duties ; but a Day is come-
ing when all our hoops p?all he knocked
offy and then it will appear how full of
fin men are. Thus he argues excel-
lently from the Barrel-, and at ano-
ther time you fhall find him as good
inhisreafons taken from another li-
quor in a hrafipan or Pot. For to
I 3 prove
ii8 AContimaHonoj
prove that fome mens little fufFer-
ings may amount to much, whereas
other mens great fufferings may a-
mount to little, he can give you no
other Reafon l?ut that God hath a very
gracious allowance for his people ; a
little will content him from them
whom he loves. For which he al-
ledges the Commendations beftowed
on the Patience of Job, though he
i^ri was impatient : "^ true y faith he, ^//^
work- p. 47. God did not meafure Job in hU wallops ,
but when he was cold. As we do not
meafure milk when it wallops andfeeths,
hut when it is cold-—^-
N' <^. Good Sir, have done 'with
this; for it is but the fame that you
faid before in the former particular,
when you told me of his fimili-
tudes.
C. That's very true. But this is
ftill the way and Spirit of Mr. B. to
fay the fame thing over again in a
new fafhion, and as the old faying
was, toferve up one joynt, in a dozen
or two ofdifkes. But to give you full
ftieafure, I will put another in the
room
1
the Friendly Debate. 1 1 p
■room of that. There was a good
Chriftian Spirit in the ancient times;
but the way and Spirit of Mr. B. is
Jntichrifiian.
N, C, Fie for fliame. That's the
thing he charges on you.
C. I know it very well. But fet-
ting alide the Papifts And a few o-
thers, who fo guilty of it ashimfelf?
For it is Antichrittian to reproach
our Church as he doth. It is An- Compare
tichriftian to condemn the prefent Ten.scrm.
wor/hip of God among us, and calP'^'^'
it Antichriftian. To decry an out-
ward glorious Worfhip as he makes
bold to do, is Antichriftian. It is
Antichriftian to oppofe all degrees
of men in the Church ; it being plain
that there were Apoftles , Evange-
lifts and Prophets ordairi'd by Chrifl,
as there v/ere high Priefts, Priefts
and Levites ordain'd by Mofes, It is
Antichriftian to call white Garments
legal, and Antichriftian. In fhort, a
furious, feditious, fchifmatical Spi-
rit, I am fure you will grant , is an
Antichriftian Spirit , and fuch is
I 4 the
1 2 o 'A Continuation of I
the Spirit of Mr. B. as I will evident-
ly prove.
M C, Do not undertake an impof-
fible task.
C. There is nothing more eafie, as '
you will foon fee, if you look but in-
to his Sermon of the Two WittteJfeSy
printed with his name to it. In which
you may read the danger we all are
in 5 if his Vifions and Revelations be
true. For having told us, plainly
enough , that fuch as he and their
followers are the Witnefles , who
receive their Orders to prophefie from
Jefus Chrift himfelf , not from men,
v.pag.i22. from the Prelates , from the Eeafi :
ofthatserm.j.{^gj^ he procccds to let us know what
power they have ; which to omit the
reft, is twofold and much to be ob-
ferved. Firft , to Jhut the Heavens
that they (hall not rainy Rev 11.6. that
is, faith he, to reftrain the highe ft port-
ers in Church and. State , from their
fronted influence , which dan have no
other {^cnk than this ; that they fhall
be fo powerful as to bind the hands
of their Governors, and tye them up
from
the Friendly Debate] 121
from being able to adt. And then
Secondly , They [hall have power over
the waters to turn them into bloody that
is, to turn the [till people of a State or
Nation into war and blood.
A". C. Surely they have no fuch
Orders from Jefus Chrift; nor will
he ever give men fuch power as
this.
C. That's nothing. They may
take this Power, though he do not
give it them. For4ie tells you, 7hif
may he done^ though not legally . For
the proof of which , he bids you ob-
ferve , that though it be faid he will
give them power to prophefie ; it is not
faid he will give them, but they fh all
have power y to fliut heaven, and turn
the waters into blood. That is, give
fuch orders to themfelves , and af-
fume this Authority ; for he repeates
it again , It may be thif tnay he done^
and not legally. What though the
Laws of God and man command us
to obey Magiftrates , not to govern
them; to live in peace and quiet and
not to dirturb the publick tranquili-
ty:
12 2 ^ Continuation of
ty : That's a fmall matter with thefe
men, who fanfying they have receiv-
ed a Commiflion to prophefie , may
inlarge it a little further on their
own heads, unAjhutyx^y orimprifon
the higher powers that they fhall not
a(5t ; and then put the people into a
commotion that they may fifli in
the troubled waters. And whenfo-
ever you fde thefe things corns to pafsy
as he tells you ; when you fee the Wit-
ttejfes have power td re f train the highefi
powers in Church and State from their
wonted influence \ and that they have
power to turn theftill Nations into war,
{andfo they themfelves areflainfor the
prefent) then you may lift up your heads
and comfortably fay , Kow is our Sal-
vation near ; For God will bring near
his right eoufne(^y and his Salvation Jhall
not tarry,
N. G. God forbid I fliould thus
underftand his Revelations, Truly,
it would make* me hang down my
head ; if I thought any fuch things
were now a brewing. I hope for Sal-
vation in another way, and had ra-
ther
the Friendly Debate. 1 2 3
ther it would tarry than be thus ac-
complished.
C. Take it as you will,thefe things
are near; if he may be believed , and
\vill not tarry. The Influence of
the Higher powers he imagines, I
conceive , are already very much re-
ftrain'd : There wants nothing but
the troubling of the quiet and ftill
people that they may reftrainthem
more powerfully : and that may foon
be effedled ^ if his dodtrine be re-
ceived.
M C. He fays no fuch thing.
C. Not in cxprefs words, he is
wifer than fo ; but it's the plain fenfe
of his Difcourfe. For he tells you
the 1260 years of their prophefying
in fackcloth began about the year
400, and therefore fur ely the end of the
time vre muft needs he about % as his
words are /?. 114. Now if you mark
what they are to do toward the end
of the time ; you will fee it as plain
as the nofe on my face, that he thinks
we muft needs be about the time of
{hutting the heavens and turning the
waters into blood. iN^.C.We
124 • ^ Comimatm of
N. C. We are paft the time, my
good Friend, for if we add 1260. to
400. the year when they ended their
prophefie was 1660. O how glad I
am that he was miftaken. I hope
we fliali have no wars nor tumults ;
and that God will open thefe mens
eyes to fee their errors ; fince no
powers were then reftrain'd , but
thofe that would have kept the King
from his throne, to which he was re-
ftored in that happy year,
C. You are an honcft hearted man
I fee; which makes you lefs fufpecffc
the craft of others. There s one word
in his difcourfe which you do not
ohCcrwCyviZ'. thereabout. That falves
the bufinefs, and ferves him for a lit-
tle while. For he tells you the X2(5o.
years might begin in 406". or 410. af-
ter our Saviours Birth. If you take
the former number, then the pro-
phefying in fackcloth ended in \666.
the year when they expedTred great
matters ; and of which fome confi-
dently cryed to the people out of the
Pulpits ( before they left them ) Be
patient^
the Friendly Debate. 125
patient y for 1666, vp ill make an amends
for all. But it failing their expecfta-
tion and producing nothing accord-
ing to their mind ; that* s the reafon
1 conceive why he hath fince that,
put in the year 410. for the beginning
of the years il6o. and fo adjourns
us for their ending to 1670. which is
'now approaching. Then no doubt
he fancies the Witnefles muft be
flain ( when they have iirft troubled
us) and after three years and a half
rife again. For he asks his people,
p'li$' If Chrifts Witnejfes Jhali lye in
fackcloth 1260. years, will not you he
contented to be in fackcloth three or four
years ? Chrifiians will you not be con-
tented to he in fackcloth three or four
years ? And in the next page after
tells them, Why now, according to the
calculation , there is not much time to
come, There is hut a little time of
fackcloth to come. Shall we not watch
with him one hour, and wear fackcloth
with him one hour ? Wait a while and
he that fhall come, will come , and will
fict tarry. And then he tells them
thev
12 5 A Continuation of
they fhall wear white robes y and come
out with Palmes in their hands ; that
is the kingdom ftiall become theirs,
and they fhall reign and triumph over
us.
N. C. He doth not apply thefe
things to us in this Nation , as you
feem to underftand him.
C. He tells us indeed, /. 124. That
he will not apply them to times and pla-
ces. But thofe words are only a grofs
equivocation ( which he muft be very
thick-fcuird who doth not difcern)
for he had done it already. Having
told his Hearers that they were
Chrifts Witnelles , and that now
they were in a fackcloth condition ( as
his phrafe is) but that it would not
laft long, and that before it was end-
ed they fliould have power to reftrain
the higher powers and trouble the
people. What need he tell them
more ? It was enough :, I make no
queftion , to make them lift up their
heads ( as he oft exhorts them) and
bear them very high ; as being likely
in ftiort time to have Dominion over
us-
the Friendly Debate". 1 2 7
us. And I cannot for my life but
look upon them as fatiating their
fancies, with the imagination of this
day of vengeance. Methinks I fee
them (to ufe the words of a famous
Writer againft our Church and
State in another cafe) like a many
Tvho in the drought ohferves theSkie,
fitting and vratching , nhen any thing
will drop that may follopL them with the
iikenefsofa punijhment from heaven up-
on us \ which they ftreight explain as
they pleafe. No evil can befall us,
but prefently they pofitively inter-
pret it, ajudgment upon us for their
fakes : and as if the very <tM^^rJufcript
of Gods Judgements had been deliver-
ed to their Guftody and Expofition*
they make the people believe that
the Wttneffes are fmiting the earth with
plagues , and finijhing their teftimony
againfl its. But thanks be to God ,
their Reading declares it abundantly
to be a falfe Copy which they ufe.
for (to fpeak in his words again) fhey
often difpenfe to their own had deeds
and fucceffes the teftimony of Divine
favour
i82 A Continuation of
favour ; and to the good deeds and fuc'
cejfes of other men. Divine wrath and
vengeance. And befides^ they have
abuled the people fo oft with their
falfe Predi<5lions from thefe and o-
ther Prophecies , that I hope the
world will fee, thefe are falfe Witneffes
(if 1 may ufe the words of David to a
difJerent fenfe) that are rifen up a-
gainft uSy breathing forth cruelty : who
behold lying Vifions, and prophecy
our of their own hearts: whofe
thoughts are thoughts of iniquity, as
the Prophet Ifaiah fpeaks , wafting
and deftrudlion are in their paths.
And I \jould to God you for your
part would fcrioufly confider (to ufe
his words once more) that to counter-
feit the hand of God is the holdeft of
all forgeries ; and that he who without
any warrant hut his own furmife takes
upon him perpetually to unfold the fe-
crets and unfearchahle ^J\flyfteries of
high Providence , is likely for the moft
part to miftake andflander thetn : and
approaches to the madneJS of thofe re-
probate thoughts that would wr eft the
fword
the Friendly Debate. 1 2 9
fvpord of juflice out of Gods handy and
mploy it moreju/ily in their own conceit.
It is hut a [mall thing for fuch men as
thefe to grafp at all poorer here on
earth; when ire fee them doing little lefs
then laying hands on the Weapons of
God himfelf which are his judgments ;
to weild and manage them hy the f way
and bent of their own frail cogitations.
It is true indeed, in this manner to
lit fpelling and obferving Divine
Juftice upon every accident and flight
difturbance that may happen hu-
manely to the afJairs of men, is but
a fragment of your broken Revenge :
yet it is the Jhrewdefl and cunningneft
Obloquy (as he well obferves) that
can he thrown upon our a£lions. For
if they can perfwade the people, that
we are purfued with the divine Ven-
geance , they have obtain'd their end
to make all men forfake us , and
think the worft that can be thought
of us. If they can make them be-
lieve that they arc the witneffes of
Chrift , and wc the be aft that afcends
cut of the hottomlefs pit : that we are
K going
no ^ Continuation of
golngto flay them, and that three OJ
tour years hence they fhall rife againy
and all become theirs : they have pro-
moted their Defign in the craftieft
manner that can be devifed. The-
[till people will be put into feditious
commotions notwithftanding all the
Laws ; they that are now quiet will
be ftirred as with a mighty wind, and
conceit ( poor Souls) that they are
moved by the S/?m> of the herd, and
are doing the work of God , fulfilling
prophecies , and making the cleareft
Comment on the Revelations, jBut if
there be not a fatal blindnefs on them
I fliall plainly fliew you, that this is
fo grofs a Cheat that no obferving
perfon can be deluded by it. Mr.
Bridge you muft know is not the firft
that hath fuborn'd the Revelation to
fpeak on his fide , and witnefs to his
Caufe. There have been many be-
fore him who have aflumed the per-
fons of Prophets, and prognoftica-
ted their own wifhes would come to
pafs. But the event hath fo evident-
ly dete(5lcd the fraud and made the
forgery
the Friendly Debate.
»3i
forgery appear, that he is very impu-
dent who goes about to fcrve himlelf
of this old trick; and they prodigi-
pufly filly who will ftill be deluded
by it, and feed on the weakconje-
diures of thofe who have .nothing
elfeto fupport their finking fpirits,
but that which hath made lo many a-
fliam'd who relyed on it.
For Mr. jivcher ^, you muft know, ''inhisBo<k
in the year 1642, from this very pro- ibnii' n^^n
phecyof//;^ tiromtneps, filled the ''^^^'"^•"
peoples heads with this Conceit, that
the end of the Papacy vpould be in the
year 1666. They are his exprefs
words pag. 44. And he repeates the
fame again /?. 46. where he tells us,
that the Witnejfes jhall recover again in
j666. and draw off" one Kingdom in
Europe from the Papacy and ruin
Rome ; and this is that Wo which ends
the fixth Trumpet. Upon which ac-
count he adds ( p.6o.) that the feventh
Trumpet may begin prefently after
the ruin of Rome , and fo the Thou-
fand years commence [4rJ'i6 JO, This
no doubt was of fingular ufc in thofe
K z dayes
1^2 A Continmtion of
dayes to infpire your people with lof-
ty hopes, and bear up their hearts i
the good Old Caufe againft all difcour
agements : and therefore Mr. Bridge
flyes to thisSandtuarynow, and ex
pedis the iame fuccefs again on the
fpirits of his Ignorant profelytes, who!
have forgot the vanity of fuch Pro-
phets,or never refledt on the uncer-
tainty of their Guefles.
JSr. C Do not trouble me , I in-
treat you, with fuch relations.
C It need be no trouble to you,
becaufe you may reap a lingular pro-
fit by hearing how fuch as he have
deluded your expedlations. For
Mr. Fr. there was another man a little after
woodcock. Mr.^rc^^r,who in his Ledlures at St
Lawrence Church about the two Wit-
nejfes (printed by an Order of a com
mittee of the houfe of Commons
27. ^pril 1643 . ) tells us quite ano
ther ftory ; and will have the rifinj
of the WitnefTes to begin more ear
ly. For his opinion is that the iz6q
years begin between the firft invafio
of tho Empire ji^.^6$. and the fact
in
Ithe Friendly Debate , i^o
ng of Rome ^An, 410. And the ycnr
he pitches on, is }8o, or two or
three years before ; and then the end
of them (excluding the three years
and a half in which the Witnefles lye
dead) fell out about 1637. ori5}8.
Then , he faith , the Antichriftian
powers, /. e, the Bifliops,y/^7r the Wit-
tieffes, byfilencing, fufpending, and
throwing them out of their places.
And then there was^r^^^ rejoycing and
making merry (according to Rev, 11.
10.) hy the Popifh Prelatical FaSliott,
as he is pleafed to call them. But af-
ter three years and an half, i. e^ at the
beginning of the long Parliament,
the fpirh of life from God entred into
them, and made them ftand upon
their feet, and reftored them to their
liberty, tothe great aftonilhmentof
the Antichriftian fadtion. Nay ,
they afcended up to heaven {verf, 12.)
/. e, were called by the Parliament to
a more ample condition : and they
went up in a cloud, i. e. abundance of
people congratulated their freedom.
Which was then done moft remark-
K 3 ably
134 ^ Continuation of
ably when three of thefeWitnefles
(Mr. Prin y Mr. Baftwick , and Mr.
Burton^ ) were brought in triumph
from the utmoft parts of the King-
dom. Then vras the Earthquake
(fpoken of K^i;. II. 13.) i. e. great
Commotions which began with the
Parliament. And d tenth part of the
City fell, i.e. if you will believe him, I
Prelacy and Ceremonies : and 7000.
men were jlain, i, e. Prelates, Deanes,
and Chapters with their appurte-
nances, had their honour, places,
maintenance taken from them. In
fhort, he confidently affirms the
Scene wherein thefe great things
muft be acfted, is one kingdom only:
And that it is no other but the Ifland
of great Brittain : and the time of do-
ing them , fome years before and
fince the calling of the Long Farlia-
mentj p. 83. And fo he concludes
very triumphantly, p. 90- Since the
Wttneffes are Jlain and rifen again ;
chear up then : ftrengthen thefe weak
hands. Verily) the hitternef^ of death is
already over', and from henceforth ex-
peB
the Friendly Debate, 135
peB better dayes, than either our eyes ^
or the eyes of our Forefathers ever faw.
Which is a clear Dcmonftration ,
that thefe mea think themfehes con-
cerned in all the Good things, and us
in all the Evil, contained in that
Book : and that every little change
in our aflfairs, makes them imagine
they fee themfelves about to be raif-
ed, and us to fall under their feet:
but yet that their high Confidences
hitherto have been ungrounded, and
were the birth of their proud Fancies,
not the fruit of their found Under-
ftanding of the Revelations of God.
Andfuch Mr. B's. prophecies I hope
will prove, who notwithftanding all
thofe glorious dayes which his Fel-
lows promifed , is ftill whining and
complaining of their Sackcloth condi-
tion ; and waits for another Parlia-
ment to make them afcend up to heaven
in a cloud, and flay 7000 men^ once
more, i.e. according to the former
Expofition, thQ Bifhops, Deans, and
Chapters, with all the maintenance
that belongs to them. Yet this I
K 4 will
I '^5 A Contimation of
will fay for him, that he is a little
more merciful than Mr. Woodcock was.
For he only threatens deftrudtion
to us in this world : but the other
faith, the power of the Witnejfes to (hut
Heaven that it rain not, is the power
to hold all tidein^s of forgivene(?, mer-
cy and peace, from the Antichriftian
Gentiles {i.e. fuch as We) while
they continue fuch : and declaring them
a people to whom no Heaven, no
Forgivenefs belongs while in that
condition, i.e. while we oppofe your
defires. You may read this/?. 70. &
^73•
N.C. Enough of this. I fee their
Vanity plainly.
C. Nay, let me tell you a little
more, for fear you fliould forget all
this,and fhut your eyes again. About
two year after this Prophet, another,
who will not name himfelf, arofe ;
and dedicated a Book to the Parlia-
ment with this Title ; 'the great My-
ftery of God ; or the Vifion of the Even-
ing and the Morning Opened. In which
he tells as the two Houfes of the Lords
and
the Friendly Debate. 13-7
and Commons, are the twoWitneffes
which the Spirit oF Chrift Foretold
(hould he raifed up to Heaven y the
high place of Juftice and Judicature.
For though ail the people of God
were Witneffesfor iz6o. years, ycc
they in a more efpecial manner : be-
caufe they were not only toprotefl ^gainjl
'jintichrifl, hut were that judgment
which (hould fit y and take hit Kingdom
and Dominion from him, raifed to Hea-
ven hy the power of Chrifi for that end.
7. Danr, %6. And therefore he is very
confident that our Lord reckoned
the 1260. years, from the year 375*.
So that the time of the Witnelles
prophefying in Sackcloth ended
1655'. Then they were Jlain, i e.
deprived of their civil power, if they
fpoke any thing againft the Pope and
Prelates; and thofe three Gentle-
men mention'd before, he tells us,
were a lively Emblem of the reft.
But then between 1658. and 1639.
the Spirit of God entred into the
Hearts and Spirits of the Godly par-
ty, bothin£^^/^wr^and Scotland, as
hq
1 3? A Cmtimation pf
he did into Cyrus; and they took all
the power and ftrength they had, to
free themfelves from that dead and
flavilh condition, whereinto jinti-
chrifi had brought them. And a great
fear fell upon all the Antichriftian
party both in England and Scotland^
yea ( fuch- if you will believe him,
was the terror of their appearance )
atRe^me itfelf. And then prefently
they heard a voice from Heaven ( /. e,
the place of Judicature ) faying, come
up hither, i.e. that Wife and Godly
men would afccnd now to thofe pla-
ces to do juftice upon Antichrift.
This Voice was heard firft from the
whole Commons in Scotland^ in whom
f^ ( mind it well for it's rare Do(5lrine )
aS the power that u in Heaven did ori-
ginally rejide : and afterward in Eng-
land, both from the whole Common-
wealth, and likewife from the King
himfelf, who fate in Heaven. And
they afcended to Heaven, i, e. to the
high places of Judicature, the fame
time 1639. in Scotland; and after-
ward here in thif Kingdom. For the
reji
the Friendly Debate. 139
refi of the godly were with Child with
thif great Truth, that the Lord Jefm in
and by his Saints was to rule all nations
with a rod of Iron: Which is fpoken
of he faith, 1 z. Kev, i . &c. And they
crycd and travail'd in pain to God ,
by humble and fervent Prayers ; and
to his Witneflfes which fate in Hea-
ven by humble petitions, from the
year of Chrifl: 1639. to 1641. T^^/^ y.pag.^.
the Lord Chrifl, that man-child, might &P-26.
in and by his Saints rule the Nations
with' a Rod of Iron, Whereupon the
great Ked Dragon, i. e. the Popifh
Lords and Prelates beftirred them*
felves to devour this man-child as
foon as it was born : But the people
of God beftirr'd themfelves both to
God by Prayer, and to the godly
party in Parliament, that thefe Po-
pifli Lords and Prelates might be
caft out. And thefe petitions and
prayers were heard of Chrifl: and his
Witneflfes, ii.Rev 5*. And fo the
Church did not only bring forth the
Man-child ofGovernment ( mark that ;
for it tells you fomc Presbyterians
taught.
J.O A Continuation of
taught, that all power was originally
in the People) hutitwa$ likewife re-
ceived up to God and his Throney into
the high place of Judicature. But the
Dragon with his tail drew a third part
of the Parliament to fall ojfTat the
fame time, and likewife a war was
raifed between the Dragon and his
Angels ( i. e. the King and his Fol-
lowers ) and the Lord Jefm and his
Witnefles fitting in Parliament. In
fliort, he tells you, that what was
done here fhould be done in all other
Kingdoms, in the year i6f$. When
Chrift and his Witnefles (hould take
the power of all the Ten Kingdoms,
which Antichrift had, into their
hands; and Ihouldraign. Yet fo that
there fliould be fome little reliques of
Antichrift in the hearts of men till
the year 1700. Then the New Jerufa-
fcm he aflures you fhall be built, and
the Lamb be married to his Church,
and Antichrift caft not only out of
the World, but out of the hearts of
men.
Thefe are fome of the goodly
Dreams
the Friendly Debate I 14 i
Dreams or Vijions ( call them which
youpleafe) of your Divines hereto-
fore. And no doubt they were then
as much believed as Mr. B's. Predidli-
onsare now. Who if he live to fee
himfelf deceived, will be able it's
like to invent fome new beginning
for the ii6o. years; and you will
ftill be fo foolilh as to give him cre-
dit; unlefsthefe things convince you
of the madnefs of the Prophet. But
if he be at a lofs, and think fuch a
blind creature as I can give him no-
tice of any thing he fees not already,
I may help him at a dead lift, and di-
Tc£i him to a Book where he fhall
find relief All my fear is,that he will
give me little thanks for my pains>
becaufe it will make his heart fick,
to hear his hope is like to be fo long
deferred. For after thefe Writers I
have mentioned, Mr.Tho. Parker oi^hevifiom
New-England printed a Book about phec.of
thefe things, in which he layes downf^^^^^^
two wayes of accommodating the years.
If they begin when there were but
dark and weak beginnings of the figns
men-
ia2 a Continuation of
mentioned, that was he thinks in the
year 390. and fo the 1260. years end
with 1649. Then the Turks will ceafc
to he loofedf and the next year after ,
they may begin to fall together with the
Pope, if this way of accommodation
hold. If it do not ; then we muft
ftay a great while. For the more evi-
dent j open and perfeSifiate oft he things
foregoing was not till the year 600.
and fo no fhutting of the Heavens,
no turning the water intobloud, at
leaft, no putting off their fackcloth,
which Mr. B. now expedts; till the
year 185^9.
N. c. Stop Sir, I befeech you once
more. For I think you have told me
too much of this fluff'.
c. The laft man fpeaks modeftly,
and therefore it was not afnifs to hear
him. As for the reft 1 fliould not
have troubled you with their Con-
jedlures, had it not been to let you
fee ; Firfi, what they think of us,
,whom they call the Jfitichriftian, the
Popijh party y the Gentiles and Nations^
thtfot loners of the Dragon, and fuch
like
the Friendly Debate ] l" 4 2
like Names. S^cow^/y,what they think
ot thcmfclves ; who are, in their own
cfteem, the Witnejfes of Chrift Jefus,
the Godly party, the Saints that are to
rule the Nations y with a rod of Iron ;
the followers of the Lamb, who are to
afcend to Heaven^ the Scat of Juftice,
and do execution upon us. Laftly ,
What a Sandy Foundation their
hopes are built upon ; and how confi-
dent they are, and well perfwaded of
themfelves without any caufe at all.
And that indeed is the chiefeft thing
I aimed at. To make you fenfible,
they have no ground for that high
opinion they have conceived of their
own wifdom and infight into the
things of God : they being blindly
lead by their own Imaginations and
paflionate Defires, while they think
they underftand and fee more than all
the Wifemen in the World. So the
laft man but one, that I named, brag'd
and vapoured : gloryinjr that he had
found out that truth ivhich none of the
wicked Jhould underfland ; neither Priefi
tior Prophet ; Rulers nor Seers, All
is
I A A ^ Continuation of
is hid and covered from them, and the
reafon is, becaufe they drank of the
Clip of the Whore, of which if a
man take but one Sip, he is utterly in-
capable to have the Vifions or Myfte-
ries made known to him. And there-
fore he triumphs in this manner over
all our Nobles and Clergy : Who will
believe of all our great men and learned
Prelates, that Jefm Chrifi is come in
the Clouds of Heaven, and isfet down
upon the Throne of Judicature in his
Saints and Witnejfes, tojudg that man
of fin ? No indeed ; they had more
wit. And yet thi^ the man thought,
in his felf conceited Wifdom, to h
Of clear as the Sun,
N.C. I am fu4iy fatisfied that they
were much out of the way : And
therefore more words are needlefs.
c. That the way ( you might have
faid) andSpirit of Mr JBr/W^ismoft-
ly and chiefly to be out of the way.
i\r. C. I leave thofe conceits to you.
C. And you will leave it to me
alfo, for you take no notice of it, to
tell vou the caufe of all this.
iV.C Be-
the Friendly Debate. \^^
A^. c. Becaufe I do not know it.
C. It's eafy to fee that is nothing
jlfc but their pride and vain-conceit
)f themfelves; as if God would re-
peal all his fecretsto them, and hide
:hem from others. For they are the
Vdtch-men upon the Tower, the Em-
hajfddors of Chrift, the Angels of the
Churches, the Lords Worthies : And
they that follow them, are the Holy-
wesy the Dear people of God, the littU
Flock, the Lambs of Chrift y the Meek
of the Earthf the Redeemed ones, and
ithe Remnant of Jacob. Nay, as foon
as ever any perfon comes to hear them
preach ; they hope there is a work of
^race in their hearts, and that they
begin to favour the things of God ; and
to defjre the fncere Milk of the Word.
As for our Minifters, Alas poor Crea-
tures ! they are the Falfe Prophets^
blind Guides y Idoljhepherds, that have
eyes indeed but cannot fee at all. And
our people are the World, the Wicked,
the children of the Evil one, Enemies
of God, and fuch as remain ftiU in
Fgypt. At leaft, the vail is before
L our
ia6 -^ Cmtinmtion of
our eyes ; or we have taken a fip ol
the Cup of the Whore^and that fends
up fuch fumes into our heads, that
we cannot poflibly difccrn the myfte-
ries of God. Hence it is that the'
meaneft of you takes himfelf to be .
. wifer than the beft of us ; than any
of our Bifhops and Priefts, nay the
whole Clergy put together. And if
we will not have fuch a man in the
fame efteem that he hath himfelf;
prefently we are looktupon as enemies
of the power of Godlinefs, formal
fellows, or mere moralifts, that hate
the true feed.
N,c, IDoth not David tell us,
that God had made him wifer than all
his teachers ?
C. See how you ftill equal your
felves with men infpired. From which
vain conceit and arrogant Opinion,
I make no doubt, it is, that you take
every fudden fancy and flrong imagi-
nation that comes into your head, to
be an Infpiration of God. And that
you are fo adventurous and bold in
expounding the Holy Scriptures^as if
it
the Friendly Debate^. \An
t were given you in that moment, as
t was the Apoftles, what you fhould
hink and what you fhould fpeak.
vTay, fo deep have you drunk of this
tVitchesCup, andarefo intoxicated
with felf-conceit and fclf-love, that
^ou imagine all your Devices, and
forms of Religion and Government
muft be received by all the world.
For your mind is the mind of God,and
your words the Oracles of God. So
even }s\i» Edwards himfelf feems tOEpifiiehe-'
fancy, when he exhorts all people [^J^i^^^^*
that were waving and hung doubtful
between Presbytery and Independency,
to wait upon God in that way of his,
an Aflembly of fo many learned and
Godly men, to fee what he will be plea-
fed to jfeak by them,
N.c. What is this to all the
World ? wxre they bound alfo to
liften to what this Oracle would
utter ?
c. You are too quick. I was go-
ing to add that as they think them-
fclves the beft people here, fo the befl:
in the world : and look upon the Re-
L 2 for-
•148 A Continuation of
formation it fclf, as needing a Refor-
mation. And therefore hoped that ^
iftheyfetled Religion among us ac-
cording to their mind, there would be ^
a pattern from the Wordfet up in thif
Iflandy for an eicample to aU other kirks^
abroad. Thus the Commijfioners of*
the general AlTembly of the Kirk of
•Direaions Scotland tell us : "^ and therefore call
toMiniftersupon the Miniftcrs to ftirup them-
lignants. ' felves, and the people in Truth and
^**^* Unity, becaufe, fay they, it will be
a powerful means to preferve our Reli-
gion, and to propagate the fame to other
Churches, groaning under their feveral
burdens, and panting for fuch a Refor-
mation as the Lord in Mercy hath gran-
ted us. And accordingly they in-
didled the Faft, 1 told you of, on
the Lords-day, for the promoting
Unity in Religion, and Uniformity
in Government, and the advancing the
Kingdom of Chrifi ( /. e, their Difci-
piine ) every where.
N.C. None excepted ?
C. No. For Mr. Cafe tells the
Commiflioners of the General Af-
fembly.
' the Friendly Deflate. '14P
fbmbly, * that God had honoured 'Epiftie be.
their Nation in making them the firft ^oi,^^iied
fruits and pattern of a thorough and ^|?^^^^*"^*
Covenant-Reformation to us, and covenant
all the reft of the Chriftian World, And to ti^.
withal fayes, / am- humbly confident y
that the fame /hore jhall not hound this
Covenant y which hounds the now two
Covenanti^^ Nations , Butf a^ it U
[aid of the Go^eU fo it mil he Verified
\ of thu Goffel-Covenant ; The Sound
thereof (hall go into all the Earth,
and the Words of it to the End of the
World. ^ 'p.62.of j
N.c. Strange Prefumption ! '^'°^^'-
C. Ifuppofe he could have found
a text for it in the Revelation, if you
had prefumed then to queftion his
humble confidence. For I obferve
the General Ajfemhly tell his Majefty,
that if they may but have that Unity
in Religion and Uniformity of
Church-Government in the two
Kingdomes which they petition him
for, it will appear then that the un- ,
happy Commotions and DivifionshisMAUfh-,
among us, were but the ^ Noifeof^^l^^'
L 3 many
i ^o 'A ContinmHon of
many Waters, and the Voice of a great
thunder, before the 'voice of Harpers,
harping with their harps ; which fhall
fill the whole Land with Melody and
mirth ; and the name of it fhall be,|
the Lord is there. The place to which j
they refer, you know, is 14. Rev. 2. \
Now immediately after this joy and
Melody there follows, as you may
fee. T. 6. an jingel flying in the midfl
of Heaven, having the Everlafiing Gof-
pel to preach unto every Nation^kindred,
tongue J and people. That is, as Mr.
Cafe perhaps might have expounded
it, this Gofpel-Covenant St. John ^
faw, upon the wing, about to fly to
the end of the World.
N.C, No man could befo abfurd.
r. What greater abfurdity is there
in this, than in the application which
the General Adembly make of the
foregoing words to the fame pur-
pofe ?
i\Z. C. I approve of neither.
C. But then poflibly they might
have perfwaded you it was a good ex-
pufition; when Mr» Cafe made you
believe
the Friendly Deflate. i 5 1
believe the Covenant was an Ordi-
dance of God, an Holy Ordinance, ^ ^ ^jf^; pla'Sl
pure and Heavenly Ordinance ; yea, o.^'the fore*
one of the moll fpecial and folemn/
[ being a joy ningOrdinance which ftrikes
' the main ftroke between God and us :
t][iQ Marriage knot J whereby God and
a people are made one: apieceofZ)/-
vine Worjhip, and, as far as 1 can dif-
cern, a more holy, or higher Ordi-
nance, in his efteem, than the Sa-
crament of Chrifts Body and Bloud.
N. C. For (hame do not abufe
men.
c. I am far from it, as you may
fee if you will but confult his Anfwer,
to this Objedlion which fome made
againft it. It is necdlefs, faid they,
to take the Covenant ; or rather a
prophanation of fo holy an Ordi-
nance; fince we have done it over
and over again in our former Pro-
teftations and Covenants. To which
he replies. "^ Tou receive the Sacrament , p ^^^
of the Lords Supper once a month, and
that if hut a Seal of the Covenant, Con-
jidcr it, and he convinced,
L4 N,c.\
1 5^ 'A Continuation of
N.C. I am convinced of this, that
youdonotbely him.
C. Very well. And therefore he
exhorts the Minifters to indeavour,
to JanBifie the people forfo holy a Ser-
'vice, as the taking of it ; and tells
the people they muft get their hearts
into an holy Ordinance frame, Jufl:
as if they were going to a new mount
Sinai, to beentredinto a new Reli-
gion ; and feparated from the Nati-
ons to be a peculiar people zealous of the
Covenara, And indeed, he all along
makes it of the fame nature with that
Covenant , which the children of If
rael made or renewed with God : and
fo confidently applies all the places
of Scripture which fpeaks ot that, to
this holy fervice; that one cannot
tell by any thing he fays, but this
was the Covenant which the Holy
Books fpeak of. Nay fomeofthem
when the Covenant came into Eng-
land lookt upon it as the Ark of Gods
* Beam cf prefence, as Mr. Feak tells us *, upon
^^^ ^* the account of which they fliould
certainly profper. And Mr. Cafe, I
re-
I the Friendly Debate. I'^j
remember, tells us, this wasthefia
of England in former times, That our
Fathers knew not this fervice : it wa4
hid from them ; they regarded it not :
and thofe times of Ignorance God
winked at, or God lightly regarded
them.
N. C, Sure he did not imagine all
our Pious Anceftors to be Hea-
thens.
C, You (hall judge by and by what
thoughts thefe men have of us all,
when I have told you , that in the
ftrength of thefe high towering
thoughts, and lofty imaginations
they taught the people to go to bat-
tle againft their Soveraign , and to
fancy the Lordnaarch*t before them.
They were confident they (hould pre-
vail becaufe they were the Jacobs and
we but Efaus ; and the Elder mujl
fervethe Younger: nay, we the feed of
the Serpent and they the feed of the Wo-
man ; and fo they muft wound our heady
i. e. give us an incurable mortall
blow. Thus they were taught by Mr.
U. IVilkinfon, in an Epiftlc before a
Ser-
154 ^ Continuation of
» preacht Scrmon "^ of his : in which he tells
p^Sn^t ^^^ Parliament again, that they havs
25x>a:ob. to do with a brood of Serpents, p. 1 5 . at
'^'* the beft, that we are hut a peice of Pa-
pal Chriftendom, as hisphrafe is,/?. 8.
Nay, when the pride and paffion
boiles up to its height , then they
look upon us and the reft of the
world , but as Infidels and Pagans.
What other Conftrudlion can you
make of the letter of the Scots in Ire-
* convened land to the General Aflembly"^? In
fr^^in which they defire them to fend over
juiyi642. fQj^g Minifters to them; God hav-
ing now opened a fair door to the
Gofpel by the baniOiment of the Pre-
lates and their followers. Nay,they
call to them, as if they made an Ad-
drefs to fo many Jpofiles , and the
Proteftants in Ireland were but fo
many Heathens ; Pitty poor ^tace-
doniansy crying to you, that you would
co7ne and help usy&cc. Send able men to
help to lay the foundation of Gods houfe
according to the pattern. And agree-
* Augufi. 6. able to this Petition they returned an
f^^ ^^^ Anfwer^ in the Apoftoligal language,
telling
the Friendly Debate. i y'5
telling them , though fhey are loth
lo jiretch themfehes beyond their cvrn
meafure , yet they dare not be want-
ing to the inUrgement of Chrijis King-
dom. And fo they fend them fome
men to plant and to water according
to the direcflions of Jefu^ Chrifi, and
the Dodtrine andDifciplineof that
Kirk, wlfhing that they who are
fent may come with the full hleffing of
the Gofpel of peace ; and that they
will with all chcarfulnefs embrace
and make ufe of the mejfage of Salva-
tion, Who would not think, that
reads this, if he were a Arranger to
our Country, that fome few Ghrifti-
ans in that Ifland had fent for fome
Jpojfolical men .or Evangelifls to plant
ths Gofpel among a Pagan People ?
And that the Prelates and Minifters
under their obedience, had been but
fo niany Heathen-Priefis , that nurs'd
up the Nation in barbarous Igno-
rance !* Such is the goodly conceit
they have of themfelves , and their
horrible contempt and fcorn of all o-
thers. From whence it is, that they
call
1^6 A Continuation of
call us the Nations \ asking their
people when they do any thing that
we do. Why do you imitate the Cufiomes
of the Nations ? And there ufed , I
remember, to l?e no phrafe more ^
common than this, when a man re-
moved his dwelling to a place where
one of your Minifters was , that he
went to live under the GofpeL And
when they inquired of the welfare of
their Friends, the current Phrafe
w^as. How do the Chrijiians of fuch a
Town ? According to the import of
which language Mr. Bridge takes the
boldnefs to call us Gentiles^ in the
» rafiserm.eares of the Houfe of Commons * ;
^tl^!^' telling them that the Homes ( the
Kings party) may pujh andfcatterfor
a time ; hut the Carpenters (viz. the
Parliament) {hall fray them ajvay, and
cafi out thefe Gentiles, And another
bold Writer * tells them that the
ticktothi Army had often put the ^Armies of the
A^^'uHy ^^^^^^ fo flight, and therefore muft
forLibcm- K-g confidcrcd. Nay, he is fo profane
as to fay > 'Take heed of refifling the
Holy-Chojiy for that mighty works have
been
the friendly Debate. 157
heeti done by thefe men you cannot dany^
p. 12. Miracles it fecms were reviv-
ed again, to convince us, who were
either poor L^^/////?j, or Heathen Ido-
laters. Yea, God did hy a continued
feries of^^iracles and wonders (if you
will believe the Rump of the Parlia-
ment * ) exalt his name in the eyes cf* Dcdar.of
this and neighbour Nations by their ^'^- ^v^-
means. But alas ! we were the moft
reprobate and hard hearted of all o-
thcr jiliens , that could not be con-
verted. Uncircumcifed Fhilifiines^ in
Mr. Cafe's language : Nay , jimale-
kites y with whom the Lord would
have war for ever.
N. C Now you grofly abufc
them.
C. Read the preface to Mr. W.
Bridges his Sermon, ^ and judge Pre^cht
whether I be guilty of that fault or Houfe'of'
-.^ Com. Febr.
N.C. What doth he fay.
C He tells you that the bufinefs
of Chrifts Kingdom is lookt upon
by the fquint-eyed multitude, under
an Hexapla of con fid er at ions »
NX, What's
j^g A Continuation of
A" C. What's an Hexapla ?
C. Nay, You muft not trouble
your felf about his phrafe , for he
tells you in the conclufion of that
preface, It is fuch as lean fpeak, and
Idejire to he thankful it is no worfe, con-
Jidering my defer ts.
K C. Well then let's hear it, as
bad as it is.
C, After he hath done with the
theological , the Hiflorical and the
Legale he comes to the fourth confi-
deration> which is Critical. And
what's that think you ?
AT. C. You would not let me ask
Queftions, and therefore Tie make
no anfwer to yours.
C. You would never guefs if you
did; nor canthemofl:Cy/>/V^/ofyou
all tell why he gave it that name ; for
it is one]y this. My money /ball never
help to kill men. To which he An-
fwers, well ; '\i you hinder the killings
quelling cf thofe who would both kill and
quell m J ours, our Religion ^ Ki:'^gdo7n;
you become friends of Gods enemies and
ours; and refolve to make peace with
them,
the Friendly Dehate ] ^^9
them , vptth whom God hath refohed
to have war, Exod. 17. ult. What
think you now, did not this man
look upon us as jimalekites^ and
wifli the Servants of the living
God y to whom he addreflcs his
Hexapla of conftderationSy would have
war with us eternally ? Do you not
fee what is like to become of us, if
men of this Spirit have Power again
proportionable to their Will i muft
not our name he blotted out ? and muft
not he be accurfed that doth the work
of the Lord negligently ?
N. C. I pray no more Quefti-
ons.
C. And then all your Vidtories
will be called once more, the return of
prayers, which you take to be as
powerful as the lifting up of <LMofes
his hands. And all the Mifcries
which befall us, the day of the Lords
'vengeance for the blood of his faithful
fervants. For 1 muft tell you ano-
ther cffedl of your Pride, is
N. G. Do not put ?ne among that
number.
a Their
i6o A Contimation of
C. Their pride then , is to think
every favour that is done them to be
their due , and fo they are bound to
thank no body for it. God they fan-
cy makes the wicked ferve them, and
caufes them to do that for their fake,
which they had no intention to do.
And on the contrary , if any juftice
be done upon any of themfelves, pre-
fent]y it is voted perfecution , cruel-
ty , enmity to the People of God,
and hatred of his Truth and Ways.
But let them exercife never fo
great oppreflion , tyranny and cruel-
ty upon their Neighbours : it fliall be
cryed up as zeal for God and his
caufe, Love to juftice and pure Re-
ligion ; at leaftexcufed, as a fulfil-
ling the Decrees of the Almighty,
fpoiling the Egyptians ; and adting
for the Lord in the day of Ven-
geance
A^. C, This is your time : and fo
you may fay what you will againft
Chrift's 7vitne(?'heariftg people , while
they are in their fackcloth condition.
It is now only their witnejjing time,
but -— C. But,
f
the Friendly Debate. \6i
C. But,what ? Why do you make
iftop?
A^. C. The times will mend , and
he Witnefjing time, they fay, will be
)vcr.
C. You would have me think then
hat you fpeak their fenfe not your
3wn : 3ut I perceive you are a little
:aken with thofe new Phrafes , of
the WitneJJing time y and witneffing
work. As indeed it was alway the
humor of your party, if a noted man
invented an unufual Phrafe,prefently
to form their mouths to that new
mode of fpeaking : Juft like a pack of
Hounds , that when one begins to
open , immediately all follow, and
almoft deafen one with the noife.
When a Preacher , for inftance,
from that text , Davidferved his Ge-
neration by the will of God, raifed this
impertinent Obfervation ; that it is
our duty to mind Generation-work ; in-
ftantly all Pulpits founded with this
Docflrine of Generation-work, That
was the phrafe in thofe dayes : In fo
much that you fhould hear both Mi-
M niftcr
ig2 ^ Comimation of
nifter and people bewailing it in theii
prayers, that they had not minde(
GetJeration-vpork more. Which mad<
fomegood innocent fouls, that wen
I not acquainted with the fecret ; bluf
when they firft heard it, and wondei
what they meant. And to fay th<
truth, that was a hard matter tp tell.
For the Preshyteriansy I think, meant'
nothing but reforming according to
the Covenant f the Lord having given
them fuch an Opportunity , as the
General Jffemhly fpeak in their An-
"Prefented ^wcr * to the Declaration of the Par-
J|^"§- liament of England* Where they
tell them that when the Supreme
Providence gives opportunity , of the
accepted time and the Day of Salvati-
en , no other work can prof per in the
hands of his fervants , if it be not
apprehended , and with all reverence
and faithfulnefs improved. And
withall they add , This Kirk when
the Lord gave them the calling , con-
fiderednot their own deadnefs, norjiag-^
gered at the promife through unbelief,
hut gave glory to God. And who
knows
I the Friendly Debate. 1 5 j
mows but the Lord hath now feme
bontroverfie with England , which
will not be removed , till firft, and
before all , the Worfliip of his name
and the Government of his houfe be
fctled according to his will. This
was their Generation-work, But o~
thcrs meant by this Phrafe ; the pul-
ling down every thing that they ima-
gined Antichriftian ; Presbytery and
all. And fome went fo far as to
think it was Generation-work to pull
down Monarchy , to hind Kings in
chaines y nay ProteBors in fetters of
Iron, And when they were not able
to do the laft , though they had ef-
fedled the other; then they fell to
witneJJing'Work y^nd prophefying againft
it : For that was the Common-
wealths mens phrafc,when they fpoke
of O. CR. himfelf. * the Lords -rmecz^
faithful people, thefoolijh contemptihle\iy^^'
nothings, irreconcileahle enemies to the
Government of a jingle perfon , were
puttingup their prayers and appeals to
the Lord, witnejjing , and prophecy ing
againji hjm, and the Beaft-likefounda-
M Z tion
^6^ A Continuation of
tion on which he flood, &c. For the fet-
tingupofhim^ you muft know, was
in their opinion the healing^ the deadly
^ wound of the Be aft '^. Though by o-
'^'^' thers who were iot Generation-work
too, and thought themfelves as great
promoters of it as they ; He and his
fon were called, ^!Mofes and Jojhua;
ox David and Solomon, as you may
fee in feveral Addrefles made to
them. But above all commend me
to the good people of Chard in Somer-
The^^ddrefsy'^/^ir^ , who blefs that Providence
at Leicefter who had given them fuch a Jojhua to
tothT^fameCondudl them to the land of promife,
piirpofe. Another phrafe as hard to explain as
the former : but as greedily fwal-
low'd, and made ufe of by your
wretched Fhrafe-mongers , to abufe
themfelves and the Nation. In fhort;
All the whole gang thought God was
fulfilling prophecies, and making
good the Revelation , and they muft
help and be inftrumental to him in
this Generation-work: el fe they might
be ihut out of the land of promife,
and not enter into the New Jerufa-
Ism.
the Friendly Debate. 15^
lem. There was no man of this fort,
who had never fo little power , were
he but a petty Conftable, or the like
Officer ; but he imagin'd he heard
God faying to him as <i!MoYdccai to
Hfiher, Who knovps hut thou art raifed
up for fuch a time ^ this ? Nay thofe
whom you count the fobereft perfons
were fo drunk with this conceit, that
they fancied themfelves or their
Friends to be j4rjgels porvring out Vials,
or fome fuch thing. Mr. Edwardsy
I remember , who with fo much zeal
and courage incountred all the Se-
I diaries, and gave a particular re-
proof to one Durance , who pray-
ed that the King might he brought
to the Parliament in chains : fell in-
to this dotage himfelf , peremptori-
ly to affirm, that God would honour
their Brethren oi Scotland to bein-
ftruments of pulling down the Se(5la-
ries. They (hall all fall before the Scots^
f iith he , whom they have fo vilified
and unworthily dealt with y as the Pre-
latical and Popiflj party did. Which
he proves from Revel, 3. 8, 9, 10.
M 5 All
i66 'A Continuation of
All thofe promifes to Philadelphiay
heaflures you, do in afpecial man-
ner belong to our Brethren of Scot-
land, as *^ Firftf that God wiU make
fecond part" /^^m come ( /. 6, thofc who are the*
p.. 193. 194. a Antitype to thofe J^tt/, the Sedla-
^^ ries, Anabaptifts, Independents,
^^ that whole fadtion) and rtor[hip he-
'^fore their feet y and to know that God
^' had loved them ; that is, they fliall
" overcome and triumph over thofe
^^ Sedlaries, t^c, O Church of Sco^-
^^landy and all ye that are {oxKefor-
^^mation Presbyterial againft the
"Secftaries, nourifh your Hopes by
*^ thefe things, neither let your hearts
*« be troubled, whatfoever the world
'' fpeaks againft you. And fo he
interprets a ftory of a Drum beating
in an Independent Congregation, as
afignification, that the War which
the Independents thirfted for with
the ScotSy as much as ever an unhap-
py Boy did to be at fifty-cuflfs with
one of his fellows, would prove their
'^Gangr^aruinj, and be a means to overthrow
3.part.pag.^j^ their Conventicles. * Though
alas !
• the Friendly Debate] 1^7
alas ! quite contrary to his expedla-
tion, the Sciftarian Army beat the
Scots to dirty fubdued the whole Na-
tion, brought Fhiladelphia into bon-
dage, and made her worfliip at their
feet. And yet Mr, Burroughs, 1 ob-
ferve, one of thofc Independents Mr.
Edw, writes againft; feemed when
time was, to have the fame opinion
of the Scottijh Brethren : and to fore-
fee glorious things that they would
do. For he tells the Citizens, cer-
tainly that Nation U a Nation that God.
doth love J a Nation that God doth ho-
nour , andy by whofe many exprejfions of
his love, jheweth thM he doth intend to
make them SPECIAL INSTRU^ speechat
ME NTS of the GREAT THINGS u^nte
he hath to do in this later age ofthe'S^^Zmi
world. And it fhould feem he read this J" Q^^^
in the Revelation too,for he adds ; We
may truly call it Philadelphia, jind
Mr. Brightman {that famous light in
former time, 50. or 40. years fence ^
did Parallel the Church of'PWiXzM'
phla with the Church of Scoti^md, Phi-
ladelphia yJ^/z/^^j Brotherly love : when
M 4 wof
1 6^ 'A Continmtm of
vpos there ever a Nation, fuch a Church
that joy ned together in fuch firm Cove-
nant as they have done ? Had we the
like Union among us, O how great things
had we done before this time ? And then
he tells them that it is a Nation in-
gag'd to God in a higher, more ex-
traordinary way than any Nation up-
on the face of the Earth ; a Reform-
ed Nation : A people that have rifen
up againft jintichrift more than ever
any people have done ; and that is
the great work of God in thefe times :
and therefore certainly God hath a
love to them, becaufe they break the
Ice, and begin the work, and arife
in fuch a way as they do, for the
pulling down of the man of fin. I
fuppofe he means they arofe in the
way of Arms, and refolved not to lay
them down till they had finifhed the
work of the times. What that was
Mr. Burroughs tells you ; tliough the
woii Jntichriji novf fignifies nothing
certainly, but what every one pleafes.
And Mr. H, Wilkinfon tells the V^ii-
liamentof £;3fg/j?7<^ whatitis, in the
fame
the Friendly Debate. ^6g
fame terms. Tour hufinef?, faith he,
lyes prof cffedly againft the ^pocalyptical}?;^^^^
head J arid all his Complices, ** The mo" preach-
' birth with which you travel, as it 1643.
was the expedtation of Antiquity
and Ages paft, fo it will be the hap-
pinefs of pofterity and Ages future.
Think not that it is in the power or
compafs of Devils or men, to make
that birth prove abortive,which him-
^ felf hath undertaken to bring forth,
'and to baptize with the name of
* Ifraely it bein^ a child of promife If a.
^ 66, 9. Shall I bring to the birth and
' not caufe to bring forth, faith the
' Lordy [hall I caufe to bring forth and
^ fhut the womb faith thy God? No
^ faith he a little after, God hath
< fpoken the word for the reftaura- •
<tion of Sion and building up the
'walls o( Jerufalan, and therefore
* let your Faith hang out its con-
' quering and triumphing Flag, and
'' let Emanuel be the ^!J\fIotto,
Thus you fee what both the great
parties thought was the work of the
Generatinn : and what fine work they
have
'- I
i-^o ^A Contimation of
have made of it; there being a great-
er growth of Jntkhrifliantfm of all
forts fince that time, than ever we
knew before. You fee like wife, what
work they make with the holy Scrip-
tures ; and that it hath been a great
part of the work of that Generation
to pervert and abufe them. And with-
allyou fee what is become of their
high Confidence that they fliouldnot
mifcarry in their Defigns upon us,
whom they baptized with the name
of the Complices of the Apocalyptick
beafl. Their hopf:s are prov'd- abor-
tive ; and now they are travailing
with a new Wind, and are in pain till
they bring forth a Lye. They that
were triumphant a little while ago,
have taken in their Flag and chang'd
the blotto. Now the word is Icha-
hodywhere is theGlory^Thcy have alter-
ed the Phrafcs very much and fpeak
in a complaining tone. After fo glo-
rious a progrefs in the JFor^ of pul-
ling down Bahylorty andfuch Aflu-
rance they fliould have the JB^^y? un-
der their feet; they are caft back
again>
the Friendly Debate] 1 7 \
again, and are but at their Witnefjing'
Worky and Prophefying its Deftrutfli-
On. Now Mr. Bridge tells us, "^ this **?earonable
is the work of our Generation, Witnefi- EvUti^es,
hearing to the truth ofChrifl in oppofition ^' ^^'
to the wayes ofjntichrift in Antichrifti*
an times, This is the work of our Ge-
neration. Good lack! That the
World fhould be thus turn'd upfide
down: That their hands (houid be
lately at the work; that the Carpen-
ters * jhould heatvpork in eiwry part * Mr. v^ndpi
cf the Kingdom to cut of the homes: foreTe ^"
and now they (hould have no work ^^y';J^^-
but for their Mouths y Witnefi- hearing ? »?•
work vs all the bufinefs ! ftrange !
The work of the time, faid Mr. Bridge
above zo. years ago, ts to meafure the
Temple, "^^ ^^y , we are upon the work *^i\^,^,i^
of Reformation, building the Temple,
He faw the meafuring line in the Par-
liaments hand ; yea, the Stones were
going to be laid, and all the fear was
they fliould not ly even. But now
allisvaniflied,anew Vifion appears;
the Church is hidden, the Inner-
Court is not to be feen, and the Holy
m city
h'jz A Continmtion of
city is ({ill trod under foot, and they
are got no further than Witneffing-
work. Then the work vpm cafl out the
^ Gentilesy "^ and now the Gentiles re-
nnain within, and the work u only to
* seaf. witnej? againfi them. "^ this is the work
112. ' ^' to which a thoufand years of Glory and
Comfort is^ promifed, This is the work ;
witnefs- hearing to the Truths of Chriji,
in oppofition to the wayes of Antichrifl ;
as he tells over and over in his Jate
se^Truti?s!^Sermons. ^ Do you not wonder at
this ; tliat the Work was fo long ago
to cafi out the Gentiles and the word
bdbrc the was given forth, * up and he doing
Parlp. 17. ^^^ ^^ itfuUy, Cur fed is he that doth
the work of the Lord negligently ; and
with-holdeth his hand from fhedding of
Bloud : But now they are only Wit-
tJejfing and waiting for the power to
turn the fiill Nations into War and
hlood ?
N, c. They are grown very hum-
ble.
C. No, This is but a new proof of
their infuflferable Pride. They will
not ingenuoufly acknowledge their
the Friendly Debate. I 75
Errors. They are ftill as bold and
confident in prophecying from the
KeveUtion as if they had never been
miftaken. And you feed and incou-
rage their Prefumption, while you
admire thefe Dreams ; and fuffer
them to lead you quietly by the Nofe
backward and forward, juft as they
pleafe. The Caufe of which I doubt
is your Pride too ; who are refolved
not to be adiamed of your vain hopes,
nor abate your confidences ; but fur-
rounding your felves with Prophe-
fies and Promifes, to harden your
faces and look as boldly upon us as
ever. The world muft not think you
have mifled the Mark : but only fup-
pofe you have received 0, fart her light y
and that the mind of God is more ful-
ly revealed; and that now you have
found certainly in the Revelation
whereabouts we are. Or rather, ma-
ny of this fort make no reflecftion
upon what is pafl:. Anew Fhrafe is
able at any time to blot out all re-
membrance of former things. Let
them but get thh by the cnd> and
there
i-yj. A Contimatm of
there is no other talk; no other
thoughts. Away go all Objecftions
and Difficulties, all doubts fcruples
and fears : All fad thoughts if they ,
have any, vanifli as foon as they hear
this ; and you may quiet them with
it when you will, as you do a Child
with a Rattle when itcryes. Lord,
fay they, it is Witnesfing'time, How
fliall thy poor Creature go through
this Witnesfwg'VPork ? Alas ! Chri-
ftians, fayes anothdf when he meets
his Friends, we are fain into the
Wit nef^ing'd ayes: Bear your Teftimonyi
Fear not their faces : only let your
s^^onabie Teftimony agree. If you would bear
irmths^p. Witnef?, unite your Te/limo.'jy. O, it
124. 125. . Ji , I / I- • -^ 1.
IS a jack-cioth condttton, replies a
Third, Let us mind the duty of afack-
cloth condition, let us vpear our fack-
cloth handfomely, I, and then faith
a Fourth, Chrifl rr ill pay all the charge
that you are at in Witnefi-hearing. If
a man have afuit at Law 9 and have 5.
Qr 6. Witnejfes, and carry them an
hundred mile, he hears all the charge
of their Witne(i'bearing. Saith Chrtfi,
the Friendly Debate . i n j
/ will give power to ej?lf T Witnejfes,
they are ^MT Witneffes, Te arc
Chrifts WitneffeSf and look whatfoever
charge you are at 9 he will hear the
charge ; he will hear all the charge of
your Witnef^'beartng, jind therefore
be faithful in your IVitnefi hearing.
In this manner they are lul'd afleep,
and tickled out of the remembrance
of all things paft. Nothing elfe
comes into their Minds, nothing in*
to their Mouths , as long as the
ftrength of thefe New Phrafes laft.
And their Minifters having found the
admirable power of them, and how
they ftick in their Fancies, and work
there, and wholly poffefs them;
they will not fail to furnifli them
with good ftoreofthem, when there
is occafion. And fliould they buft
change a certain Word now in ufc,
into one of thefe Phrafes I believe it
would help to do their bufinefs very
cffecSlually.
AT.C. You will not teach them
fure in this Art. What do you
mean?
C, Preachr
1^5 -A Continuation of
C. Preaching you know hath been
a Word long in ufe among us, and
no body needs be told what we mean
by it. But this being an oldPhrafe
there were fome that grew weary
of it, and changed it into Teaching.
And for fome time, who taught to
day? was the Phrafe. But this
growing common fell into diflike
too; and fo they called it, Escercife-
ing. And when this became ftale
alfo and pleafed them no longer,
then I remember, fome called it
LeBuring, But this would not take,
and fo Speaking became, in a manner,
the only Word. And among the
moft pure the queftion ftill was, who
Speaks here this Morning ? But af-
terward this was changed too, into,
who holds forth ? and what was held
forth hy him to day? A great many
more fuch Alterations it's like you
can remember, who are better ac-
quainted with thefe matters than L
But I was going to tell you, that if
any man Ihould have the conceit to
call it Witnejiing, or Profhefywg ; and
this
the Friendly Debate. \nn
jthis phrafe Ihould get among them,
who Witneffes to day in fuch a Con-
gregation ? or who Prophefies in your
Meeting ? or will you go hear Mr. J.
B, C, he4r his Itfiimony to day ? No
doubt it would take wonderfully;
and make a Rabble run like mad to
hear what new thing , this IVitnefi-
bearing is. For fuch is the fillynefs
of this people, that they imagine with
every new phrafe^ there is fome new
thing to be learnt ; and that the old
Preachers are nothing to the nerv
teachers ; and they who hold forth
have fomething more to fay, than he
that only Speaks, And therefore
what will they fancy there to be in
Prophejyingy :ind Witnefi- hearing? no-
thing lefs, I warrant you, than a
clear Difcovery of the things that lay
hidfrom Ages and Generations; the
opening of Seals ; the numbring of
the years, and unlocking all the Se-
crets of the Revelation. And though
they underftand never a word, yet
they will believe themfelves marve-
loufly inlightned, when they are
N well
i
I ng A Continuation of
well ftuft with phrafes: and are able
to talk of Generation-work, Witneffing-
times , jhutting up Heaven and com-
manding that it rain not ; turning ths
waters into blood, andfuch like things :
cfpecially when they can fancy them-
felves to he Witnejfes and to have Povper
v.seafon. ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ prophej} , and to fend fire
Truths p. out of their mouths to devour the Jdver-
' ' faries. This is comfortable Dodlrine f
indeed; that they can but open their
mouths, and out come fcortching
and devouring Judgments , at their
prayers y to hlaft and deftroy us all.
If this fancy get into their heads, it
will be fure to keep them in heart,
and blow up their furious Zeal to
a greater Heat. And if ever they
chance to reflecffc on the mifcarriage
of their former hopes wherewith they
were big , they will then have a trick
ready at hand to falve the bufinefs,
that it fhall not difcourage their pre-
fent confidence. It was only becaufe
they were not hot enough , and did
not open their mouthes wide enough,
and breath forth fiery and devouring
prayers
'
the Friendly Debate . I 'y 9
prayers againfl: the Enemy. And
therefore now they will call to one
another as Mr. Bridge teaches them"^, & u6'^'^'
and fay, Chrifliansy U there a IB ire) a
Fire in your mouth ? O you that have
any credit in Heaven j pray now. What ?
Doth fire come out of the mouth of the
mtnejfing people of God to devour their
Enemies, and vpHI you flout your mouth
and not pray ? Oyou that are witnejfes,
now open your mouths; for fire proceeds
out of your mouths to devour the ene-
mies that hurt the witnejjing people of
God ; Open your mouths wide ; and you
that never prayedy pray now.
Thus they open their mouths;
but fhut their eyes , and will not fee
how they have been deceived. They
maintain their confidence by thefe
Arts ; and are all agreed in this, ne-
ver to agree with us. They muft
have war with jimalek for ever. And M^^nner of
though they have many differences ^ ru1?i. p.^
as Mr. Bridge acknowledges , and are ^°^'
divided into many opinions and perfwa-
fions , yet if they agree in this one
thing 5 which is the main, to unite
N 2 their
i8o A Continuation of
their Teftimony againft us, it is
enough. This fliali bear up their
Spirits, and make them hope though
they clafli and jarr in a thoufand
things. Let but their witnefs againft
us agree, and their hearts fliall not
fail ; but they fliall ftill talk as if
they were infallible.
N. C. I was loth to be fo uncivi,] as
to interrupt you too much in your
carreer : but you have drawn your
difcourfe to fuch a length , that it
would weary your Friends ^ were they
here, as much as vex your Ene-
mies.
C. I did not intend fo many words :
But my thoughts ran fo nimbly be-
fore me in this Argument, that feel-
ing no wearinefs in my felf, I never
refledled how much I might tire you.
Pray pardon me.
M C. Well it's done now : And I
will not begin it again by making any
refledlions on what you have faid.
But this I muft needs fay, that Mr.
Bridge was always held a very preci-
oHs man , one that hath a deep infight
into
the Friendly Debate. i8i
into the things of God ; much in-
lightned in the knowledge of the My-
ftcries of Chrill , and of long expe-
rience in his ways ; and therefore, I
confefs, I much wonder at thefe
things, and am troubled that he
Ihould write on this fafliion. Yet
fay what you will, there are thofe
who will follow and admire him.
C. Do you think I am fo fimple as
to doubt of it ? when 1 confider , as
a French Gentleman once faid , how i
there are fcarce any kind of Beads
which hath not heretofore been ado-
red among Idolaters ; nor any Dif-
eafes incident either to Body or
Mind, whereunto Antiquity hath not
eredVed Temples ; what ihould make
me wonder at fo fmall a thing as
this, that divers men have thofe in
high efteem who are no ways deferv-
ing. It is no marvel if fimple peo-
ple hold fots in high reputation, fince
they have addreflfed their Incenfe to
Jpes and Crocodiles, There are thofe,
I have been told, who prefer the
neighing of an HorfC/ before the
N } fwcct-
L':
1 8 2 ^ CominmHon oj
fvveeteft and moft mufical voice of
finging men and finging women : and
others that have thought the fmell of
Garlick to exceed the beft perfumes , ,
why fliould I think it ftrangethen if
there be fuch men found as are more
moved with the knocking of hoops, and
the vpalioppings of milk and fuch like
Sounds; than with the ftill voice of
the cleareft and moft harmonious
Reafon ? In fhort, I am not forgetful
of the Proverb, that the Purblind if
King in the blind mans Country,
N. C. I lookt when you would
bring forth a Proverb again.
G. And is it not fignificant? I
think it deferves to ftick in your
mind more than any of yourP^r^-
fes.
N, C. But 1 always thought, what-
ever you judge of us otherways, that
you had all allowed us to be the moft
knowing people in the Land.
C. Yes ; in your own conceit : But
otherwife you have difcovered the
greateft folly. For you would never
hear Inftrudtion : but alway tickled
your
the Friendly Deflate. i g ^
your felves with this fancy that you
had the work of God in hand ; and
that what you defigned was the very
mind and counfel of the Lord ; who
would never let it mifcarry, but bring
all your thoughts to pafs. Other-
ways , you need not have been in
this condition wherein you are. For I
can tell youwhoforewarn'dyouofit
in Print five or fix and twenty years
ago, and bad you take notice of thefe
words; If it jh all come topa(^ that in
point of Reformation what formerly was
proffered by the Soveraign and refufed
by the Subject , fl^all hereafter be reque-
fled by the Subject and denied by the So-
'veraignj we fhall have leifure enough
to admire Gods jujlice, bemoan our own
condition , and inflruB our pofierity not
to outftand good offers ; lefi for want
of feeing their happinefi, they feel their
own mifery. But you have no fpare
moments , it feems , to admire any
thing but your felves : Nor to be-
moan any thing but that you do not
ftill ft in heaveny the place of Judi-
cature , to which you thought your
N 4 felves
184 '^ Continmtion of '|
felves advanced. And are fo far from
inftrudling pofterity in any true wif-
dom , that you would have them
think the greateft happinefs we can ^j
next defire is to fee the fiill nation '
turnd to war and blood. The old fay-
ing was , that if things were to he
done twice , all would he wife ; but
you
N, C. Pray leave of your old fay-
ings, We do not underftand matters
of Policy and humane Wifdom : but
in the things of God fure you will
not deny us to have a fpirit of dif-
cerning more than other folk.
C. In the Revelation you mean,
and the ancient Prophecies : In Wit-
t7e fling' work, and the work of the Gene-
nation. In which indeed you have
difcovered a marvellous skill ; and
ihown that you can fee as far (you
will needs have it farther) into a Mil-
ftone than other men.
A^C I am fufEciently convinced
that we know no more of thofe fe-
crets than you : But there are a great
many other you knew befide thofe, in
which
the Friendly Debate] 185
which it was ever thought we were
well feen.
C. Now perhaps I g;uefs at your
meaning. You have great skill in
expounding tlie Works of Provi-
dence, though not in interpreting
Prophecies : and can give the reafon of
thofe misfortunes which befall fome
particular perfons ; contrary to the
exprefs fentence of our Saviour,
N, u Thofe very words of our
Saviour deter us from pafling ra/h
Cenfures.
C. Do they fo i How came Mr.
Vicars then profeflfedly to handle this
Argument ) and not only tell ftories
of Gods hand upon Malignants ; but
exprefly affirm, this was a direS t^um^.
judgement of the Lord for defperatef^^l^^^
^J\taligfiancy ; and that, a clear evi- ^l^ff^
dence of Gods undoubted indignation^ ?^\n^cod*
And now how came Mr. John White
to licenfe this defperate Book ; but
that you thought you might do any
thing to promote the caufe, becaufe
it was the caufe of God ? This makes
you
I g 5 A Continuation of
you ftill compofe Prophecies to amufe
the credulous ; and fill the Nation
with the noife of Prodigies to fct the
timerous into a fit of trembling.
When your troubled imaginations
prefent you with a throng of difmall
thoughts ; then you thunder out
judgment againft us ; and when any
unufual thing befalls any of us ; then
youinftantly cry out; fee the hand
of God : behold how theLord plagues
them for our fakes. You know I do
not lye. There are two or three
whole Books writ fince the Kings re-
turn, that will witnefs againft: you,
if you fliould gainfay me. And fo
would Mr. Vicars ; who hath nothi ng
to aflFrighten Neuters withal but fuch
tales as this ; that a certain Malig-
nant being filled with terrors on his
death-bed repented of his crime ; ob-
tain'd afTurance of Pardon from the
Lord ; faw Chrift himfelf in a Vifi-
on , who told him he had a caufe on
earthy and that the Parliament of Eng-
land defended /V, and fhortly none of
thofe wicked Minifters , that had
mif-
the Friendly Debate] 187
miflcad Gods people, ftiould be left
among them.
M C. I renounce all thofe Books ;
and hate that the caufe ftiould be fer-
vcd with fuch ftories of Gods judge-
ments.
C. \ wifh it be becaufc Chrift
taught you better, and not meerly
becaufe experience hath a little in-
ftrucfled you, that this weapon may
be turned againft you , and wound
your fide as well asotirs. Imyfelf
could tell you Arrange but trueMif-
fortunes that have befaln fome of
your way ; which I will not interpret
to the juftifying of our caufe or the
condemning yours. I will only re-
member how you were wont to cla-
mor,if any man took notice of unufu-
al calamities upon any of you; and to
cry Blafphemy , Blafphtmy : though
you were fo prone to cry Providence^
Providence when the like betided any
of us. Mr. W. Bridges for inftancc,
when the converted Gentleman fpoke
pf fome remarkable ftrokes upon Anfucrro
three great perfons, whofe names I ^^^tl^p,^?'''
will
1 88 A Continuation of
will not fo much as mention, re-
plyed in a great pafllon ; Surely, were
not pr oph arte ne^ and hlajphemy astoyes
4nd trifles among you, yen durji not
Jpeak, much lefi print fuch hlajphemies
Of thefe. Solomon faith , that all
things fall alike to all, and the fame
condition {in regard of outward things )
is to thejufi as to the wicked : ^s is the
goodfo is the finner ; and he that fw ear-
ethy oi he thatfeareth an Oath : there
is one event to AIL For my part ; I
embrace this Docflrine with all my
Soul ; for a greater than Solomon hath
taught me not to conftrue events ac-
cording to my own fancy, and as will
beft promote and juftify my opinion :
only I wifh, you would not alter your
mind when the perfons are altered;
and make one rule for us and another
for your felves.
N. c. No. You and I are well
agreed in this.
C, Thank you for nothing. When
you fee that which you took to be a
Jharpfword prove but a wooden Dagger,
you throw it away. Such is the great
wif-
the Friendly Debated i2p
wifdom and knowledge you brag of.
You firft furioufly lay about you,
not regardihg whether you hit friend
or foe ; and when you have hurt both
alike, then you repent and fay you
will do fo no more. I pray God you
be as good as your word. But I much
fear you will prove like King Saul,
who when he hc:ird David was in
Keilahf faid, Now God hath delivered
him into my hands, for he is fliut in a
City that hath Gates and Bars. And
though he faw he was deceived yet
grew never a whit the wifer ; but
when his Enemy was in a New ftrait,
concluded again that God had in-
trapped him, and would not let him
cfcape his Vengeance : According
to the old faying. They that have
forward defires fall into Dreams, al-
though they do not deep.
i\r. C. We have done I aflure you,
with expounding the meaning of
Gods Providence : and fliall not pry
any more into his hidden Counfeb.
C. Very good. What piece of
knowledge then have you to brag of
more
'ipQ A Continuation of
more than others ? Unlefs you mean
fome fecrets which you keep to your
felves : Special and extraordinary Ex-
citations y and Chriftian Inj^irations to
make a Reformation mthout the calling
of the Supream Magifirate, as Mr.
Saltmarjh*s words are: An inward
call from God giving you leave to
break his Law, or as Mr. Bridge ex-
preflesit, to make a change, but not
in a legal way. This I confefs is a
trick, but no fuch Myftery : a new
device but no great Secret. There is
none of us all but can eafily learn it ;
and that we do not, is not becaufe we
have not fo much Wit, but becaufe
. we have more Confcience.
N,c* No body ever pretended to
fuch knowledge.
C. Yes but there did. Mr. Salt-
mar/h confefles that the early fetting
forth of private men in the work of
Reformation is apt to exceed to a
^^,^^ tumultuous motion : Yet for all that
(Qnuv.vni- he would not put them fo far behind, 04
dedicSc'd'to ^^^^ ^^9' y^(?^W Ijy like the Lame and
jheAiien> the Difeafid at the P(?o/ t/Bethefda,
IV ait" ,
the Friendly Debate ] tgi
n ait i fig till a Supreme Power come
among them- *^No, there are many
''publick ingagements which they
*^ are capable of, and which
^'Providence will often guide them
«'unto: as in finding Ow^-Tr^^j offa-
^' cilitatiotj, and advancements for
^^ the bufinefs ; befide fo7ne other Ar-
*^ cana, andfecret Preparations. What
thefe Out-wayes were, into which a
man might lafh and fo skip over many
difficulties, he leaves us to guefs.
You may be fure they arc not the
Common high road of the King of
Heaven; as the Reply tells him. His
jircana alfo he keeps to himfelf, as
if he was one of Heavens clofe Com-
mittee, and fo bound to Secrecy.
But the moft likely perfon to dif-
clofe thefe Myfteries and reveal the
Arcana ( if he be not fworn to fecrecy
too ) is Mr. Bridge ; of whom you
may enquire. And perhaps he will
think himfelf much beholden to you
for teaching him a New Phrafe which
he hath not yet ufcd; Out-way es of
Facilitation of the great and hard
work
Ip2 A Continuation of
work now at hand. Thefe Out-wayes
will do knight- fervice, when they
come to the bufinefs of reftraining
the higher powers, and turning the
ftill people to war and blood.
N^C. You are refolved I fee to
lead me out of my way ; and to take
one occafion or other to divert me
from the main bufinefs.
C. We are in our way yet. But I
was going I confefs to lead you to
the dancing on the ropesy and then
indeed you might have taken occafion
to complain.
N, C. I think you are out of your
witts. Can you tell what you was
going to fay ?
C. I was thinking with my felf,
what 0«^1r^^eJ the dancers upon the
ropes could find ; to whom Mr.Br/W^
compares Reformers. They have no
Out'Wayesi\xxQy but what may indan-
ger to lead them out of the world.
MC. Would you would reft a.
while and take a nap : For I doubt
you have heated your Brain by this
long difcourXe, and fo begin to talk
idlely. C.I
the Friendly Debate. 193
» C. I underftand my fclf well
enough ; and call to mind that I
fliould indeed have faid, Walking
{ which is more becoming the gravity
of Reformers ) not dancing on the
Rope. For his words are thefe (when
he is exhorting the Parliament to lay
the Stones of Reformation with moft
cxadlnefs ) Tou fee that when a ^^^ sermon ht
walks upon the Rope, he carrieth a pole Tore the
in hif hand to [way him, and he looks di- zg.Ncv.
ligently to hiifeety hecaufeifhefail heli"^^'"^' ^^
cannot mend his mifcarriage ; Jnd 1
Ifayy that in this nork of Reformation if
I there he the leaft Jlip, it will he a hard
\ thing to recover it, when once a nation
\ is fetled in that mifcarriage. Surely
therefore the work is to he done with the
moft exaSinefi,
N.C: Well, and doth he not fay
true.
C. I /hould indeed have confidered,
that Out'wayes are only to facilitate
your getting the work of Reforma-
tion into your hands : when you are
about it, then Out-wayes arc dange-
rous. All muft be done by the RuU
O and
ig^ A Conmmtion of
and by hirje (or in a new phrafe by
Kopc ) according to the Word. In
brief; 1 recolledl now that this is
th^'Out-vraying timej in order to thofc
better times of Walking upon the Rope.
But 1 pray what was it that I diverted
you fronn ?
N, C. O, now I fee you are come
to your felf. And will you then ever
hear me fpeak a Sentence or two
more 1 thank you for this fmall
filence. You have fnapt, of late,
at my words too haftily ; and cut me
fliort in what I was going to fay ;
which was plainly this. We obferve
the Multitude that run in your way
to be a company of blind Ignorant
Creatures, that have fcarce a drachm
of the faving knowledg of Jefus
Chrift, and the Myfteries of our Re-
ligion. Nor do they care to know
thefe things ; but only content them-
felves to come to Church and fay their
Prayersy and learn their Catechifm,
and hear perhaps a Sermon, which
they prefently forget. Whereas our
People are very inquifitive after
know-
(he Friendly Debate. lp|
knowledge^ and can difcourfe rarely
of matters of Religion, and repeat
Sermons; and befides are very care-
ful to know the pure Gofpel way of
Worfhipping God. And, truly,
when I confider things well, I cannot
but wonder how fottifh many of your
Conformable creatures are, who ne-
ver fcruple any thing, and would
without all doubt conform to the
grofleft Superftition and Popery ;
mould it be injoyned. But we are
very tender, and follicitous as you
your felves confefs to have pure Ordi-
nances, and to know the very mind
and way of God.
C. I perceive you have little or no^
thing more to fay of this matter ;
therefore I pray let me tell you what
I think. I cannot deny that many of
our common People are very Igno-
rant : Nay, they themfelves are fen-
fibleofit and will confefs it. But I
muftadd; that yours are generally
Ignorant too, only think themfelves
very knowing. Now which of thefe
think you are the worfe ; they that
O 2 are
1^5 ^ Cominrntion of
are Ignorant but humble and void of
fe If- conceit ; or they that are as
Ignorant , but very Froud and con-
ceited of their Knowledge ? Nay
bold and confident of their own skill,
taking upon them to inftrudl their
betters , to difpute with our Mini-
fters, and that as if they were their
Equals if not Superiours ; without
any relpedt to their learning or of-
fice ? For 1 mufl: tell you withall,
that as to their duty towards God
and man ; a great number of thofe,
on whom you beftow only your pit-
ty, and efteem Ignorant creatures;
have more underftanding , at leaft
more confcience than many of thofe
that figh over them.
They are more reverent in theirDe-
votions and addrefles to God ; more
refpedtful in their behaviour to his
Minifters ; more obedient to their
Governors ; more humble and mo-
deft before all their betters ; and, as
far as I can fee, more juft and chari-
table toward all men : And therefore
are in a better difpofition to learn
more
the Friendly Debate, \ p n
more and incrcafe in knowledge,than
your prating felKconceitcd people.
And if there be fuch Kffe(5ts as thefe
of the little knowledge that you def-
pife ; and few better fruits than
talkativenefs , malepert contradidli-
on of their Elders , cenfuring and
contemning the ignorance of o-
thers, from that great high know-
ledge which you boaft of, I would
fain know which of thefe you judge
are like to be moft faving. But of
thefe things perhaps we may have oc-
cafion to difcourfe fome other time*
As for the Reft; I flatly deny that
your people are more knowing. For
I of thofe that are the moft earneft for
pure Ordinances , Gofpel-wor/hip, and
cry out upon owthiturgy y nay abhor
it, as 'Superflitioui, Popijh, Idolatrous,
&CQ, there is not one in an hundred
that knows what thofe words mean.
Be but fo true to your fclf and ftudi-
ous to underftand men aright, as to
ask the next you meet, and bid them
deal plainly and freely with you,
what Popery, Superftition oiWillwor'
O 3 {hip,
ip8 A Continmtion of
Jhip is; and I doubt not you will find
they are like a company of Piggs run-
ing after an old Sow (which falls a
grunting) fqueaking, and making a
fearful cry they know not for
what.
A" C You ufe a very homely fimi-
litude.
C, It may pafs well enough in
common talk, and was the firft that
came to hand to reprefent the rude
and fenfelefs noife which the multi-
tude make with thofe words, only by
imitation.
]\F,C, But you compare them to
Swine.
C, No. I only compare their cryes
together, which are bothalike un-
reafonable. Do but ask for inftance
what they mean by Popery : and fome
of thefe Ignorant Zealots will tell
you, it is to do that which tspradlifed
in the Church of Rome : Which is no
better than the voice of a Brute. If
this be Popery , all our Religion is
Popery. We muft turn Jews , or
Turks or Pagans, that we may not
be
the Friendly Debate. \99
be Papills. And yet that will not
Jo neither ; for this Popery will ftill
be found among us , that we pray
and give thanks to God, which are
acftions common to all the world
with the Church of Rome.
JSf. C. You need not have fpent
one word to confute fuch a grofs con-
ceit as this.
C. True. But this fottifh Defini-
tion of Popery you will be fure to
meet withall from fome, if you will
but take the pains to enquire. Others
it's like will tell you, that it is Pope-
ry to do any thing after that manner
that the Papijis do : and then we muft
never kneel , nor lift up our ' eyes
or our hands, nor meet together in
a Church
J\f.C. Why do youfetcht fuch a
figh?
C. I figh to think of the intoUer-
able blockiflinefs of thofe people that
will pretend to know all the Myfte-
ries of God. For others, who think
therafelves more wife than the
rett; will tell you that to ufe any cere-
O 4 moi
2 o o A Contimation of
momes in ufe among them, is certainly
Popifli. And then we muft ufe none
at all (and fo make no outward ex-
prefllon of Religious devotion^ which
muft be done in fome manner or o-
ther) or elfe they muft be fuch as
are Qonfefledly abfurd and ridiculous.
Nay all civil Ceremonies and Cu-
ftomes will be forbidden us in time
by thefe men : at leaft for every thing
that they hate, this fhall be the
name^ Popi/h, ^ntichriftian, or Ea-
hylonifh. For O.G. himfelf I well
Trueeata= remember could not be carried to his
ieg^eP-n- grave without their clamours; that
it V!as a needlefSychargahle, Popijh, fu-
neral folemnity , becaufe there was
hldck Velvet , a BeJi of State and a
Waxen Image. Nay let Monarchy look
to it felf , for that is Popijh and jin-
tichriflian too in fuch mens opinion,
and this Kingdom one of the Ten
Homes of the Beaft. And down
{hall my hord Major go alfo ( when
they are able) as an Image of that Gor
*vernmentj together with all the pomp
and foolery which attends him; as their
words formerly yvere. JN". C I
the Friendly Debate. 201
i\Z! C. I hope there are no fuch dan-
gerous perfons now among us.
C. It's well if there be not. But
you will certainly find fome who will
tell you, that all Ceremonies invented
by the Pope are Fopijh; and think
themfelves much wifer than their
Neighbors, if upon this ground they
furioufly rage againft our Church.
Butthe beftofit is, that this is no-
thing to the purpofe : For none of
ours were invented by him. The
Grofs was ufed among Chriftian peo-
ple long before the name or power of
the Pope was heard of: and fo was
kneeling; and white garments, and
bowing the body in adoration of our
Blefled Saviour.
i\r. C, But I have heard fome fay,
that it is Popijh to do any thin^ of thif
nature hut what U frefcribed by the
Word.
C. Thisisasfottifhasall the reft.
For it fuppofes, both that nothing
may be done in or about the worfliip
of God, but what we have a Com-
mand for in Holy Scripture; and
that
20 2 A Cmtimation of
that the Pope and his followers, are
the only perfons who have done any
thing not prefcribed there. Elfe
why Ihould they call it Fopijh, or
Romijhy more than Fatriarkijh, or
Greeki/h ?
Ni c, h not the fuppofal true ?
C. No. All the ancient Chriftians
did many things in Divine worfiiip
appointed by the Scriptures, for
which they had no particular pre-
fcription there. Nay, fuch is your
Ignorance, you your felves do fo too
and never mind it. For what diredli-
on is there to make a new prayer
twice or thrice a day ? and one Prayer
before the Sermon and another after ?
to receive the Sacrament of Chrift's
body and bloud in the morning and
not after Supper ? to deliver it into
the hands of every perfon that re-
ceives it, with prayer for him, or
Exhortation to him, or both ?
N.c* Prayftay. You will let no-
thing at all be Popifh if you be let
alone: at leaft nothing of this Na-
ture
• C7. Yes.
the Friendly Debate. 203
C. Yes. We are taught by our
Divines, that, to ordain fuch a mul-
titude of Ceremonies, as will imploy
moft of our thoughts and care in
time of Divine Service how to do
them aright; deferves that name. Or
if we make any of them an eflential
part of Gods worfhip, or give them
power to obtain pardon for us, or
work grace in us : or, laftly, if we
make them Apoftolical and neceffary
Commands that bind the Confcience
as the Laws of God do : then call
them Popiflo and Jntichriftiany or what
youpleafe.
N. C You fay well : and I confefs
I know a little more than I did.
C. O that you would help to re-
duce thofe filly, and many of them I
hope well-meaning foules, who
through mere Ignorance and blind
prejudice are departed from the grave
andfober way offerving God among
us, to follow their own vain fancies ;
and perhaps conceit they arc Witnef-
fng againft Popery and the wayey ofAn-
tichnft ; that is, againft they know
pot what N. C. I
2 04 ^^ Continuation of
i\r. C 1 am not come fo far yet ;
nor hold my felf able to Witne(i a-
gainft fuch perfons; but this I can
fay, that all is not Pe?/?^>7 which is fo
called.
C. Nor Superftition neither.
Though with the fame doltifh Igno-
rance, they charge us with that vice
which they are moft guilty of them-
felves and do not know it : as appears
by what i told you at our laft meet-
ing-
N, C. They like not your definiti-
on of Superftition.
C. That's becaufe they like no-
thing that we fay : and becaufe it
makes them fo plainly guilty of that
which they condemn. But do they
like Mr. Cahins definition of it bet-
ter f
N.c. What is it?
C You may have met it's poflible
with his Inftitutions yiot they have been
long in the Englifli Tongue . There
he tells you almoft in the beginning
of the Book, that as Religion hath its
name from ^/W/V^^, andisfet as con-
trary
the Friendly Debate^. 205
trary to wandring Liberty ; becaufc
it binds men up,and prcfcribcs bounds
and limits to them, in which true
Piety confifts: So Superftition hath
its name from going beyond all mea-
fures'y being a humour that will not
be bounded nor limited ; or as his
very words are J, that not being content-
ed with the manner and order frefcrib-
edy heapeth up together a fuperfluous
fjumber of vain things. Do you like
this, I fay, or no? If you do; then
I will fhew you that as in Prayers, fo
in other holy Duties, your humour is
to keep no meafure nor order, but to
heap up one fuperfluous thing upon
another : No fct Form can content
it, no limits or bounds can hold it;
but it is ftill inventing fomething
new to pleafe your felves and others ;
and then you fancy God is pleafed,
becaufeyouare. I know you have a j
conceit that you keep your felves
within the limits of the word, and
that you dare not for a world ftir be-
yond the confines which God pre-
icribes : but this only makes your Ig-
norance
20 6 -A Contimationof
norance appear the more grofs, as I
will plainly fliew you.
M C. I guefs by what you faid the
laft time whereabouts you will be ;
but it will turn us too much out of
our way to enter into that difcourfe
at this time.
C. Well then, He let it alone till
you give another occafian. And the
rather, becaufe I would have you go
as foon as may be and ask what Wtll-
wor/hip is? That's another word in
thefe Witnejfes mouths, of as much
efficacy and as little fenfe as all the
reft ; for when they are angry, they
charge one another with it as well as
us. The Independents were wont to
fay that it was Will-worfhip to fct up
the office of Ruling Elders in the
Church : And I can fhew you one
that calls the Church Covenant^ re-
quiring men to give fome figns of grace,
and call the way oiAdmiffion of Mem-
bers into Independent Congrega-
tions, by the very fame Name. And
therefore I believe you will foon leave
fuch to wrangle it out ; and go and
ask
the Friendly Debate J 207
ask fome others, what they mean to
bawl fo againft Forms. But I believe
there is not one of a thoufand can
give a reafon, why he may not as
well accufe the whole frame of Na-
ture as our Liturgy upon this ac-
count. Efpecially if you tell him
that there is nothing in Heaven or
Earth but hath a Form. That when
we underftand it is by forming fome
conceptions in our Mind ; and that
we form our Speech or words to make
our conceptions underftood by o-
thers. And therefore even your Pray-
ers muft be in a Form, or elfe they
are fenflefs ftuflf ; a meer noife and
found that no body can underftand.
N, C. We are only againft fet
Forms.
C. And fo many of your Prayers
have none at all ; but are then thought
moft heavenly, when they are moft
confufed ; and to have much of God
in them when they have nothing of
Man, For the common word is, 1
like not Forms, &c. He ftill fticks
in Forms : he is a dull formal man :
which
2o8 -A Continuation of
which are Phrafes as fet and ftinted
as our Prayers. They are never out
of ufe, but repeated an hundred times
a day. No repetitions they think
are bad, but only of the fame Pray-
ers ; nor any other conftant Forms
unlawful, no not of railing and revil-
ing, but only thofe of Divine Ser-
vice. Thcfe they leave to the wick-
ed, and take the other to themfelves.
N. c. Pray do not fay fo.
c. I muft fay more than that. They
hate a Form of Prayer, but love to
pray in thefe reviling forms of fpeech.
Forthey tell God how a Superftitionf
and Antichrifiian way of worfhip hath
juftled out his own Inftitutions. That
men worfhip the Graven Images of
their own inventions. That Gebaly
Ammorij and Amalek are rifen up a-
gainfl: them. And the people are
taught to go and f^read their anger
and t hre at nings before the Lord: and
to tell him that it is an angry timey a
perfecuting timet a day of great wrath ;
TruSis,p. abundance of anger and wrath, and ha-
180.182. ^^^^ ^^^ malice in the hearts of men
againfi
the Friendly Debate. 2 o p
againji the people of God at thii day :
or as Mr. JB. his language is in ano-
ther place, "^ JSovf Foptfl? men /?//x;g ' Fuinef? of
latd thetr net pnvny for m ; and vre
may go to Chrifi and fay, Lord pull m
out of the net that they have laid for t&s^
for thou art our ftrength. And, for
any thing I can fee, much of that
they call the Fower of Prayer confifls
in fuch Forms as thefe.
N.c, Alas! You know not what
that Power is.
C, I know it is juft fuch another
word as Form, which they ufe with-
out any certain fenfe, as they are
wont to do the Apoftlel words con-
cerning a Form of Godlinef^ VPtthout the
Power of it. This Form ofGodlinefi
if you will believe fome, is Praying
hy a fet Form"^ y and then the Pojr^r of^
Godlinefi, mufl: be praying without ti/MinT^
^"^- Engl, to the
N,c. It cannot be. ^^^^ ^,f"^
C, It is asltellyouo And this is ^"'^'"
one of the reafons that the world hate
the Saints ; for that the Saints are a
praying people: You muft not mif-
P take :
2IO "A Contimation of
seafona. ^^^^ • Forms of Praj/er they can en-
lll^' P* dure J hut the power of Fray er they can-
not hear. They are Mr. B. his
words.
N. c. No indeed, not if it confift
of fuch railing language as you fpeafc
of: But neither you nor I, it's like,
apprehend his meaning.
C. Do you know what he means
when he gives this for another reafon
of the hatred of the world to the
Saints; that they defiroy their Gods,
defiroy their Idols. Men of all t-hings
^ cannot endure to have their Gods defiroy-
ed : now the people of God do defiroy
the Gods of the wicked, no wonder there-
Cb. p«)$7« f0yg ffjaf; ffj^y are fo provok't againfi the
Saints and people of God.
N.c. Not I.
C. Then you are very dull. He
means our Worfliip, which they are
wont to rail upon in thofe terms alfo,
calling it Idolatry, worlhipping the
Golden cahes, and fetting up new
Gods : which are fuch rude and beaft-
ly clamours, that 1 am loth to foul
my mouth with naming them. They
are
1
the Friendly Debate^. '2 1 1
are only vile and abominable Phrafes
which every Ignorant wretch can
ferve himfelf of, when he lift to re-
proach his Neighbors. Atfirft the
JPreshyteriatJS called Conformity to
the Innovations ( as they were ftiled
by them ) Wor (hipping the Golden
Calves, Afterward the Independents ^^w.can^,
called the Diredlory, the golden calvs ^i^^i! ^'
of Jerohoamf and affiim'd that this
order to help in the way of Worfliip
was a breach of the fecond Command-
ment. Nay, Mt^ Burton, one of the
Witnejfes faid, that to make a Law
about Religion was to fet up the
Golden Calves, or Nebuchadnezzars
Image : Or if you will have another
Phrafe for it, to chufe new Gods and n,^ p^ ^.
then VPOA irar in the Gates, as an Inde-
pendent Preacher faid at Chefler when
they were about to chufe Lay Elders.
But to be even with them, the Pre s-
hyterians threw thofe Phrafes back
again in their faces, and askt the five
Brethren : Is the Golden Calf of In-
depency and Democracy come out of it
felfy without Aarons making it ^. Andg.^^^^^^X
P 2 in ',
"2 1 2 ^ Continuation of
in conclufion one IVeh ( as the fame
man tells us) called the Scripture
it felf ; that Golden Calfy and brazen
Serpent which fet at variance King
and Parliament,and Kingdom againll
Kingdom, and faid things would ne-
ver do well, till the Golden Calf and
brazen Serpent were beaten in pieces^,
».p"86.^^^No wonder therefore, if the fame
man faid, the Scottijh Nation
was the Babyloni/h Beafi ^Ih. p. Sj.
N. r. I fhould not have been of-
fended if you had called fuch men as
thefe, beafts, and faid they bellowed
or brayed (or what you pleafe)againft
your worfliip; Speaking evil ofthofe
things, which they know not. But you
are not Ignorant, I hope, that we
have a more knowing people than
thcfe, who are truly Religious and
mind ferious things.
C What is this to the purpofe.
I ask for a P/c^-/^Jc and you bring me
2, Spade, We are not talking of fome
fele^H: perfons, but of the Multitude,
which I affirm are grofly Ignorant.
Yet fince you lead me to it, 1 muft
tell
the Friendly Debate. 21 j
tell you there are Serious as well as
Slight/<7///Vj : And I have reafon to
think there are divers of thofc who
are more fober than thofc we now
fpoke of, and pafs for very knowing
Chriftians, that have fmall skill in
any thing but Phrafes. For what
greater token can there be of Igno-
rance than either not to underitand
what a man means, or elfe to flight
and undervalue what he fayes, if he
declare the Dodlrine of Chriftianity
in plain and fimple words ? A^ay to
complain as if Religion were loft and
the Gofpel gone, if we leave ofTtheir
Forms of Speech and beloved Phra-
fes?
N, C. iVbw I fcarce know what
you mean ?
C. Do you not remember what a
noifc and clutter there was when Mr.
Baxter began to fpeak more intelli-
gibly about fome yveighty things in
Chriftianity, than others did ?
N. C. Yes very well. Some thought
he taught a new way of Religion, and
led us from Chrift to the Law again.
P 5 r.The
2 1 A 'A ContinmHon oj
C. The reafon was becaufe he put
them very much out of the rode of
their Phrafes. This made them fear
Chrift would be taken away from '
them ; and free Grace be defpifed ,
and a Covenant of works reftored.
And for the very fame caufe they raife
fuch a dull now againft many of our
Minifters. They do not hear them
talk of getting into Chrifi, and getting
4n inter e^ in Chrifl ; and that for this
end they muft get Faith, indigo to the
promife, and eye Chrifi inthepromife,
and clofe with him in the promife, and
lay themfelves flat upon the promife ;
and go out of themfelves that the pro-
mife may enter : All which you think
are very myfterious things, becaufe
you are Ignorant ; for let all the fenfe
that is contained in any of thefe
forms, be delivered in proper plain
and cafy words, and you defpife it
a§a thing of naught. Though you
to.\ko£GoJpel- light, and Gojpel-difco-
series, and Goj^el-manifefiations , yet
. there is little or nothing all this
while to be known or underftood.
Re^
the Friendly Debate^. 2 1 r
Religion you will have to befuch a
Myftery, that if a man thinks heun-
dcrftands it, he ought to conclude
he is not acquainted with it. It is a
certain fign a man hath no skill in it,
if he imagine he knows the plain mean-
ing of it. It muft be look't upon as a
Great fomething'. a thing to be itar'd at
and admired,but no body knows what :
atleaftyou cannot clearly difcover
it to us, notwithftanding alj the
brags we hear of light and difcover ies.
Hence it is (which is a great ar-
gument of their Ignorance ) that
great numbers of your Religious peo-
ple, have been fo eafily perverted
and turn'd to the wildeft Sedts ;
when as the cleared Reafon that our
men can fpeak will not convince them.
What multitudes have foon turn'd
\4nahaptifts , Antinomians , Familifis,
and Behmenifts ; but how few, and
with what difficulty, can be brought
to the Church of England ? This is
an evident proof to all confidering
men that they can be made in love
with any thing but only Reafon : And
P 4 that
2 1 6 A Continuation of
that a Difciple of Jack-pudding fliall
lead greater troops after him , than
thcgravefi Dhine, They willfooncr
liflentoafancy, and are more ready ^
to embrace another pack of new
Phrafes ; than the fobereft fenfe and
andthewifeft Inftrudtions that can
be fpoken.
There is a famous and undeniable
, inftance of it in the o/Z'^r, and as you
think, the Purer, England, Was
it not a wonder that the whole Church
of Bofton (fome few excepted)
pould become Converts on afudden to a
daring woman, and be infedted with
her damnable Opinions ? And that,
find thefe ^^ough they were efteemed. Wife, fo-
very words her and well-grounded Chriftians ; and
ceedingsof fome ofher opinions alfo had the whole
comhoTd^ Current of Scripture againft them ? Nay,
^'J^^^^^^^^; they look't upon her as a Prophet efi
2.1637- a- ( fuchvvere her fpiritual gifts ) raifed
gainft Mrs. ^rr^jr-r T / ^
iiutchmfon Up of Godforjoms great work now at
P%?tr' ^^«^. ^^ ^^^ calling of the Jews, 8cc.
^s>6^' So as /he had more re fort to her for Coun-
fsl about matters of Conference , and
clearing up mens Spiritual Eftates, than
any
the Friendly Debate] 217
atjy t!Mini(fer, {Imightfay all the El-
ders ) in the Country, This they im-
pute to the craft of this American Je-
zabel: but I have reafon to think
the truer caufe was the Ignorance of
thefe knowing people; who were
»4^afily cheated by her new Phrafes,
and foft Dodlrines concerning Free
Grace, glorious light, and holding forth
naked Chrift : efpecially with fuch pre-
tended Myfteries as thefe, that, Chrifi v.Mr.wdds
ii the Neva Creature ; that we may have nJ^or!^
all graces and yet want Chrift. That 55- 38.48-
there can be no true clofing with Chrift
in a promife that hath a qualification or
condition exprejfed; that conditional
promifes are Legal, and therefore no
true comfort can he had from them.
That to aB hy vertue of or in obedience
to a Command u Legal, that to Evi-
dence Juftification by SanBification, or
graces, favours of Rome, that the
Witnefiofthe Spirit is merely immedi-
ate, without any refj^eB to the Word, or
concurrence with it ; that the Seal of the
Spirit is limited to this immediate Wit-
nej?, and doth never witnefs to any work
of
2 1 8 A Continuation of
of grace, or any coticlufions of ours. And
finally , that the tmmediate Revelation
of my good eflatey without any refpeB
to the Scriptures y is as clear to me, m '
the z'oice of God from heaven to Saint
Paul.
N. C. There was Witchcraft fure
in the bufinefs.
C. Yes ; of fweet Do5lrines , and
glorious phrafes : The pleafing mur-
mur o^myjieries, and fpirituality, of
immediate Sealing and witnejjing ; of
Revelations and manifejiations of the
Spirit. Thefe bewitched the wifeji
and fobereft and well grounded Chrifli-
ans (becaufe in truth they were Igno-
rant , and ftood upon the ground of
fancy and imagination ) who would
have ftopt their ears like the deaf Ad-
der to the charms of fober Reafon,
fhould a man have charmed never fo
wifely. Nor could they ever be dif-
inchanted by all the Arguments and
perfwafions of all the Miniftcrs in
that Country^ hut /he kept her ftrength
i^'V^'^^' and reputation, even among the people
of God y till the hand of Civil jufiice
laid
the Friendly Debate] 2 i<^
laid hold of her; and then (he hegan
evidently to decline , and the faithful
to he freed from her forgeries. So
wholefomc fometime is alittlefcve-
rity : And fo much is the force of Ci-
vil Authority with thefe people, a-
bout the fliarpeft Arguments of Di-
vines. For they oppofed the Spirit y
and their manifeftations and illumina-
tions, to all their Minifters Reafons ;
which would do no fervice at the bar
of the Court of Juftice, where they
underftood none of this language.
And now I fpeak of the Manifeftati-
ons of the Spirit , it is very ftrange
to me, that you fhould generally ex-
pert the Holy Ghoft fliould do for
you what Chrift hath promifed at his
parting to the twelve Apoftles;
teach you all things , and guide you into
all truth. It is another fign of great
Ignorance in you, and of infincerity
I doubt, in many of your Minifters ;
who are afraid to difpoflefs you of
this conceit, and toinftrudlyou in
the plain difference betweeii thefe
times and thofe; but fuffer, if not
teach ,
^zd A Contimation of
teach , you , to apply to your felves
whatfoever our Saviour fpoke to the
Apoftles alone. A thing which is fo
palpable , that I cannot but wonder '
men (hould fo pervert the Scripture ;
efpecially when they fee there is no
fuch thing, but that thofe whom they
account the people of God , are of
feveral , nay contrary minds. And
that all cannot be in the right, and
yet none they think devoia of the
Spirit , to teach them all things and
lead them into all truth. This fure
makes fo many think every ftrong
and unufual motion they find within
them , is the work and operation of
the Spirit of God. And that every
place of Scripture that comes on a
fudden into their mind , is darted
from Heaven and the immediate
dictate of the Holy Ghoft : though
never fo impertinently applyed to
their prefent occafions. And that
all the ardent affecftions and tranf-
ports, and raptures they have in
prayer or at other feafons, are like-
wife Infpirations from above; arid
that
the Friendly Debate^. 2 2 1
that now they are filled wkh the Ho-
ly Ghoft. Which is a grofs and ig-
norant Gonclufion ^ in my opinion ;
for want of fuch obvious confidcra-
tions as thefe; that fuch heats and
flights are common to them with the
Heathen Poets , and excellent Ora-
tors ; and that bad men have had
them as well as the beft : as I am able
to fhew you, if you pleafe.
A" C. Some other time if you
will ; for we have fpent now a
great deal in this kind of dif-
courfe.
C. Let me tell you notwithftand-
ing, that this, 1 believe, is one rea-
fon that your people are filled with
fomany doubts, jealoufiesand fears
of being deferted. When they
have not thefe heates; then they
think the Spirit is gone ; and how to
comfort them , it's hard to tell, till
they return again. And now 1 men-
tion this, give me leave to tell you it
is another evidence of great Igno-
rance, that the minds of well mean-
ing and honeft-hearted people among
you
2 22 -^ Continuation of
you are full of fo many fcruples, and
fo uncertain what to refolve on all
occafions. You may fay perhaps it
is, btcaufe their confciences are ten- ,
der> and very careful and wary what
they do : and fo you may fay when
you fee a Blind man tremble and
walk foftly, and feel his way at every
ftep with his ftajff, that he is a very
"Wary man; when it is not Caution
but his want of light that makes him
fo diffident. And indeed how is it
poflible they fliould have any true
aflurance in any cafe, when it is fo
hard, if not impoffible , to be refol-
ved in the great queftion of all, What
a man mufi do to hefaved, and attain
the fatisfaSlion of knowing that he hath
an interefi in Chrifl ? To this,the moft
admired Divines reply , that a man
can have no comfort hut only hy going to
the promife. O, but faith the poor
Hooker's Soul (according as it is taught) I dare
f^m^n^'not fo much as look to the promife, I
cSp.'so. ^^^^^* helieve it. To this the Anfwer
is(p. Iij*,) Thatam^knjhallneverhe'
lieve on thefe terms, if he look to have
faith
the FrienMy Debate, 223
faith before he go to the promife. For
thou muft not have faith and then go to
the promife ; but, muft firft go to the
Promife for the power of that faith ;
from it thou mufi receive power to be-
lieve. But then how fhall the Soul
go without Faith ? Will a Promife
do him any good unlefs he believe it
to be the very Word of God, on
which he fhould truft ? This is an
unanfwerable difficulty, as fj^r as I
can find Thefe Divines cannot tell
him how he fhould go to the pro-
mife fince it is confefs'd he muft go
by Faith, and if he look to have faith
before he go to the promife , he will ne-
ver have it. They only tell him over
again {p. 1 1 7.) and if it will do, well
and good : Ihat we muft not bring faith
to the Promife; but receive faith from it
to believe. Thus the poor Soul is fent
to the promife for Faith, and back a-
gain to faith to lay hold on the Pro-
mife ; but how to do that who can
tell? It muft firft go to the promife
to fetch faith ; and yet how Ihouid it
go ; if it have no faith ? In this cafe
how
2 24 "^ Continmtion of
how fhould a man chufe but be full of
fcruples ; and like one that is bcwil-
dred and loft, not knowing what
will become of him i ,
N. C. I have read the Book, for it
ufes to be one of the firft that is
"^ recommended to us , and as I re-
member he tells you a little after.
How a Soul fhould get to the pro-
mife.
C. J thank you for remembring me
of it. He moves indeed that quefti-
on/?. 144. But methinks he only
leads a man into a worfe Labyrinth.
For thefe are the Rules to he ohferved
how the Soul may get to the Promife.
Firft, throw off all power and ability in
thyfelf. Let the heart lie ftill, till the
wind and tyde and promife come 9 and
that win carry thee. And yet the 5^-
cond Rule ( which immediately fol-
lows) is this, which contradicfls the
former : Bring the promife home to thy
hearty that the promife may bring thy
heart to it. How is this poflible ? I
would know how to get to the pro-
mife;and I am told I muft ly ftill^that
the
the Friendly Debated -225
the promife may come to me.And yet
at the next breath I am fent to bring
the promife home to my heart ;
which fuppofeslmuft go tofetchit.
What a cafe am I in now? What
Direcflion can he give me to bring me
out oFthefe briers? Why ? To anfwcr
this doubt , the only way is to unfay
this in the third Rule, which fuppo-
fes the Promife will come of it felf,
and that I need not bring it home :
For it runs in thefe words ; When the.
•promife is thus come home to thee, and
thou fee fl thefujficiency and the Authority
of it ; then aU thou haft to do is this :
In the ftr earn of that promife, he carried
home to the promife i p. 1 49.
N. C. 1 can make no fenfe of it.
C, Nor I neither. But the thing
he feems to aim at is this ; that a man
muft only wait till Chrift aflure him
that he had made all the promifes to
him. For thus he explains the bufi-
nefs. Jacob would not believe that
Jofeph was alive till he faw the cha-
riots that were come for him. Thefe
fcnt from Jofeph to Jacob , brought
Q Jacob
2 25 A Continuation of
Jdcoh to Jofeph, So every believing
ch^Kiiati ^^^^ ^^ P^^^ ^^^^ feeble ; difabled to go
drawn to to God and to believe in the Lord Jefus,
i48.\so.' Therefore he muft look to the Chaiiots of
Ifrael firfi ( it fiiould be of Jofeph ac-
cording to the refemblance) and that
will convey him fo the promife : and
when the chariots are come , get up into
them : The Lord Jefus is gone tohea*
ven and hathfent thefe chariots for thee;
therefore get thee up , and fay Lord,
take me up with thee. And fothey
did : They got up into I know not
what fiery Chariots, and mounted
into the Air , and there fancied they
faw the Lord Jefus immediately re-
vealing himfelf to them ; and fo car-
rying them to the promife, theab-
folute promife. And I verily believe
thefe Docflrines were they from
whence the American Jezahel (as-
they ,caird her ) extracted her Poi-
fons, and by which the people were
prepared, todrinkof /^e cup of her
fornication ; perfwading themfelves,
that a man is united to Chrifi and jufii-
fied without Faith; that Faith is not a
the Friendly Dehatf] 2i^
receiving him, hut difcerning he hath
received him already , that a man is
united to Chrift only by the work of the
Spirit upon him, without any aB of his,
that there is a teftimony of the Spirit
and a voice unto the Souly meerly im-
mediate , without any refpeB unto, or
concurrence with the word* And that
there are diftinB feafons of the workings
cf the Jeveral perfons ; fo that a Soul
may be faid to be fo long under th&
work of the Father and not the Sons;
and fo long under the work of the Son,
and not under the Spirit, jind in con-
clufion , that a man is not effedlually
converted till he hath full affurance,
and that this is given immediately ;
all the Activity of a believer being only
to aB to fin. Ail thefe, 1 fay, are the
plain fenfe (if there be any at all
in this Book) of what he delivered in
more obfcure words.
A^. C Pray go not about to prove
this. For cny head begins to turn
round already , merely with the
fcent of thefe intoxicating ingredi*
<ents«
Qz C.U
2 2% A Cmtimation of
C. If thefe Do(5lrines had been
broacht by any of us , you would
have found out our pidlure long ago
in the Revelation, and faid, that the'
Church of New England was Thya-
tira, and this the Jezabely which cal'
ledherfelfaprophetefs: and that fuch
Divines as thefe were the Prophets of
Baal, the Priefts of Jezahel,anithc£G
Dodlrines the DoBrines of Devils.
AH which you might have done with^
a greater colour andfhewof reafon,
than apply thefe names to our
Priefts. But you are favourable. to
one another; and wink at fuch Books
as thefe, provided the Authors be
Non-conformifts ; and cannot (as you
ignorantly fpeak) bow to BaaL
N. C. I am glad there are none
of thefe Do^rines here in this Eng-
land.
C. Thofe Books are here, and
highly admired by fuch found Belie-
vers, as take all for Gofpel that fome
men fay ; but can find nothing of
Chrift among thofe that fpeak fenfe
and make the Dodlrine of Chrift in-
telligible.
the Friendly Debate^. 229
telligible. Nay, I can find you Dif-
ciples of fuch Authors as thefe a-
mong your Preachers; who will
fome times tell you that Ghrift will do^. ^^^
all for you ; and then tell you prefent- fweemefs,
Jy that fomething muffle done by you,%p^i^'
Thus one of them introduces theji^g^:!'^
Soul complaining, That the Duggs e?/ranM662,
Divine love are full ; hut I cannot fuck »
Anfwer, Be of good comfort y Chrifi
will not only open his Bofom , hut thy
(CMouth. But I cannot fetch out the
milk that lies in his Breaft ; I ^fm hut
weak. Anfwer, Chrift is fweet ; and
with his finger he will force out the
Milk of ^JMercy into thy mouth ; if thou
canft hut open thy mouth. What need
he have made an if of it, if Chrift
would open its mouth ? and if he will
do that and every thing elfe, why
did he not make an end of the bufi-
nefs in one word and fay, ^AH the
jiBivity of Believers is to aSitofin?
And fo comfort the believing Ewes,
who are big with young in a fmful fenfe
and fay
Q 3 AX We
230 ^A Cmtinu(Xtion of
N,C. Wetalkta little while ago
of fome mens bellowing and braying,
and now you are going to fall a bleat-
ing.
C. You are very pleafant. I hope
then it will not offend vou , to let
you know that I was giving you the
explication which this man makes of
thofe words in Ifaiah j\o, 11. I will
gently lead thofe that are withyoungy
Pag.102,103 that is, faith he (according to the
admirable way , now in fafhion , of
expounding the holy writ) Chrift will
be very Jsjnd to thofe Saints that ftep
afide (which is called whoring in Scri-
pture) and deal gently with thofe
who are big with young in afinful
fenfe ; whom,l was going to tell you,
he comforts thus: O ye finning Ewes,
who have been big with young , hath not
he gone after you , and found you, and
* Pag. 114. laid you upon his fhoulders ^ rejoycing ?
pfcaff of ^^ ^^y ^^ ^^^^^ ^^fi ^^^^ wandring like
MT.Hooker, Dinah from thy fathers houfe , and art
though 7 ' . •; ^ "^ 1 r ' 1 i
thoucanft bigwtth young y and afraid logo home.
way to heaven, yet he will find thee,&:c. and lay thy Soul upon his
fl^culders, i. c. upon the Riches of the frccnefs of Kis Grace, p. 149, 150.
But
the Friendly Debate . 231
But fear not : go and try : he will not
call you out of doors. Though you come
with big heliies ( to keep to the Meta-
phor ) he will deal gently with thee,
though with young, p. 119.
N,C. We have followed thefe
Bwesy or GoateSyOi what you do pleafe
to call them, too far.
C. Its true. But at firft /inten-
ded only to tell you how he defcribes
a weak believer : who have, as Divines
fay, the Faith of adherence) they will
flick to Chrijl as theirs ; huf they want
a faith of Evidence; they cannot fee.
themfelves to he his. p. 18.
NX. Thefe Divines fpeak Non-
fen fe.
C. Judgthenin what uncertainty
the Difciples of thefe Divines live,
who never tell them plainly what
Faith is. And what a Arrange blind-
nefs they labour with, who cannot
fee ( as they fpeak ) that they are
Ghrifts ; though they perfwade them-
felves that he is theirs. Nor do I fee
what fatisfadlion they are like to re-
ceive in particular cafes, any more
Q 4 than
I
232 ^ Continuation of
4:haninthis,thcgreatefl:ofalL Your
Dodlrine fcems to me to be To ob-
fcure, that it's hard to come to any
folid fetlement or peace of mind.^
One of your Rules, for inftanccr is
that we muft have a warrant from the
word of God for everything we do:
If there be neither Precept nor Prac-
tice that we can find there tojuftify
an adlion we intend, it muft not be
done . This without doubt hath wo-
fully infnarled your peoples Gonfci-
ences, and is one great reafon they
are fo full of fears and fcruples : They
have been taught not to rely upon im*
partial reafon, buttofeek ftill for a
place of holy Scripture to be their
Defenceof guidc and Warrant. So l^lr, W.Br ad-
Lotf^a^y^-^^ ( a famous Divine, whofe name
^rd. ' know you reverence ) confefled to
Mr. Gataker ; that he v^as often trou-
hied tofatUfy fome in their Cafes pro-
pounded to him, though he gave them
never fo good reafon for hu Refolutions ;
hecaufe they would not therewith hefa-
tisfied, unlef^ he could produce fome
place in Scripture for every particular.
'' Thus
the Friendly Debate. ' 233
''Thus infinite perplexities, doubts
<'and fcrupulofitics muft needs arife
** in mens minds (asMr. //00^'^r well
'^expreflcs it) and ftops and rubs
<* without any end be caft into the
*'courfe of mens lives concerning
^' their ordinary and civil affairs, if
•'the light of Reafon ftiall be fup-
^' prcffed ; and men fhall be con-
" ftrain'd, burn it never fo clearly,
''not to proceed by it in ought they
" are to do, till they have had folemn
" accefs, firft to the written Word,
"and fetched light from fome parti-
"cular fentence in it, for the far-
"ther confirmation of them therein.
And thus 1 may add, the Scripture
came to be bafely wreftcd and bended
from its proper fenfe and meaning,
to fcrve their particular occafions.
And, in their great Ignorance, they
went away better fatisfied with a fan-
ciful and impertinent application of
it to their prefent bufinefs; than if
|thc foundeft Reafon in the world had
ibcen offered to them. Only, this
in time was the mifchief of it, that
by
'234 -^ Contimation of
by this means they found a Way to
juftify unlawful A(5lions, and fup-
ported their GoriilJence in thofe
wayes, againft the nnofl: evident Rca-
fon. But it's poffible you will not
regard what / fay, nor Mr. Hooker
neither, being one of thofe you call
blind and fuperftitious writers. Let
me fend you therefore to Mr. Cahin,
who tells you that if yoa underftand
not your Liberty about things in
themfelves indifferent, there will he
no quiet in your ConfcienceSy no end of
Superflitions. Many indeed think,
faith he, th^it we are fond to move di-
fputation about the free eating of flejh,
about the free ufe of dayes, and gar-
inentSyandfuch other fmall trifles, 04 they
think them : But there ii more weight in
them than is commonly thought. For
when Confciences have once cafi them-
felves into the fnare, they enter into a
long and cumber fo me way, from whence
they can afterward find no eafy way ta
inftit.L.5. get out, '^ /f a nian begin to doubt,
a|^i6. i^iox inftance, whether he may ufc
*Minnen Sheets^ Shirts, Handker
^^ chief
the Friendly Debate. 235
'' chiefs and Napkins ; neither will
^^ he be out of doubt whether he may
^'ufe thofe of Hemp, and after that
^' of courfer ftufiT Nay, he will be-
^^ gin to weigh with himfelf whether
^'he cannot fup without Napkins,
^^ and be without Handkerchiefs, li
'* he think dainty meat to be unlawful,
'^ at length he fhall not with quiot-
^^nefs before the Lord eat either
'^ Brown-bread, or Common meats,
'^when he remembers that he may
'^ yet fuftain his body with bafer food.
*' /f he doubt oipleafant Wine, after-
'^ward he will not drink even that
*^ which is dead with peace of Confci-
" ence ; laft of all he will not be fo
'* bold to touch fweeter & cleaner wa-
^' ter than other. Finally,at the length
*'he will come to this point, to think
*' it unlawful ( as the common fay-
** ing is ) to tread upon a ftraw lying
" a-crofs. For the Queftion is not
" lirghtandfmall, being no lefs than
^^than this; whether God will have
*'us do this or that, whofe Will
^' ought to guide all our Counfels and
" Acflions. A^. C /
! 276 A Comimation of
N,C^ I know none that are txou*
bled with fuch idle fcruples as
thefe.
c. That may proceed from the
dulnefs & ftiortnefs of their thoughts,
which never let them fee into what
cndlefs Labyrinths their principles
will lead them, /am fure fuch rules
as thefe have been fo improv'd by your
Minifters, that in an ignorant zeal,
they deny you your lawful Liberties,
and lay upon you unneceflary Re-
ftraints. And on the other fide in-
tice you to hear controverfies and all
manner of Dodlrines ; faying, that
no part of the Counfelof Godmuft
be fuppreded, and conceiving the
People would be defrauded, if they
were not admitted to thefe difputa-
tions. They make no difiference, as
"wifeand my \^or: A Bacort"^ obfervedlong ago,
moderate , -^ -arn in ° ^i
DifcourfeofbetweenMilk and itrong msat, and,
fe^prin- tofpeak again in his words (which
feepdb* "^^ come to my mind) whatlfaid
iiiiied in his before in my own ; they feek to prove
Kefufcitatio 1.1 r o •
Ti6s7. every thing by exprcls c^cripture, or
elfe imagine it is not to be allowed;
and
the Friendly Debate] 237
and then that conftrains them to
wreft it, and make conceited infe-
rences and forced allufions. And as
iov preaching it hath been in a manner
made ncceflary to fanc5lify every Or-
dinance; which is another very ig-
norant Conceit. There are many
have thought, Qiith he, that it isal-
moft of the Eflencc of the Sacrament
of the Lords Supper, to have a Ser-
mon before it. This hach brought
Liturgies, and forms of Divine Ser-
vice into contempt ; and made thofe
to be defpifed who had not the faculty
of conftant preaching. As for thofe
that could not preach at all, they
have been alwayes reproached by you
infoftrange a manner, that it hath
been another occafion of corrupting
our Religion, and bringing the holy
Ordinance of God into contempt.
M C, It*s impoflible, you (hould
rather fay the quite contrary.
C. Hear me a little and then judg..
Thcfe poor men were in a manner
conftrain'd by your rud^s clamours,
to take upon them to expound the
word
258 A Continuation of
word of God, though very unable for
it; and thereby expofed too early
even preaching it felf to the laughter
andfcornof thofethathad fome Wit'
to difcern, but no goodnefS to pitty
their Weaknefs. They were loth
to hear themfelves called Idol-Shep-
herds, that had Mquths but could
not fpeak a word from God ; and fo
rather than endure this reproach they
entertained the people with their
Glofles , Paraphrafes and Dif-
courfes, upon the holy Scripture,
and called all the Word of the Lord,
though never fo abfurd and fenflefs.
Silence I confefs had better becom'd
them, than ftraining themfelves to
fpeak what they did not underftand :
but yet confider how hard it was to
refift the temptation to open their
Mouths as oft as they could; where-
by at once they might both avoid the
contempt and odious brand of a dumb
dog ; and alfo get a great reputati-
on, with the Ignorant multitude,
of an able, painful Minifter of God's
Word.
And
th Friendly Debate] 239'
And as for thofe who had Ibme
abilities to expound the Scriptures
and exhort the People^, they were
called upon with fo much earneftnefs
to preach the Word in feafon and out of
feafon, that they knew not at laft
what to preach. They were forced
to ftep up into the Pulpit and make a
noife, when they had little or Nothing
to fay. By which means the Holy
Writings were applied according to
their prefent fancy; and handled in
a very carelcfs and Superficial man-
ner. A bold Face and a ready Tongue
were fain to fupply the place of good
Reafon and well digefted thoughts.
Loudnejb (as Dr. Corn. Barges onccFireoftfae
told you) rras made toferveirjftead^^^^^
of matter. For they found if theyP*5»o- .
were but carneft, the people accoun-
ted them very zealous preachers, and
imputed their want of matter to their
vp'tfdom and defire of edifying : not to
their want offiudy or ability. And it
was their cuftome to fay. He preaches
to the Confcience, He ft and s not upon
deep learning : He reproves fm boldly ;
and
240 A Contimation of
and if it was other mens?, not theirs,
fo much the better. For the very
truth is, the people do not love to
hear nothing but their duty ; or to'
hear it frequently repeated. And
fome taught them in time to call this
Legal-preaching, Gofpel Sermons
were then to be contrived; nothing
but Chrift and free Grace to be prea-
ched. And becaufe they grew weary
even of hearing thefe fo often over ;
there was a neceflity to device Novel-
ties, or elfe not preach fo many Ser-
naons. The laft would by no means
be admitted ; and fo the Scriptures
were to be fqueazed, new notions in-
vented, delicate new phrafes coyn'd,
and indeed a new Religion made to
pleafe the people. Could it, for in-
flrance, have entred into the head of
any man, fromthofe words of Ifaiah
before mentioned, to talk of Believ-
ers being big with fin ; and to make
fuch obfervations as thefe, that it is
our Glory to he Chrifl's Erres ; and that
when a man is big with young,and
cryes O my belly, my belly ; here is a |
point
the Friendly Debate. 2 4 I
point of comfort , that Chrift is
fweet to fuch perfons ; could a maa
I fay have ever thought of fuch things
as thefc, but that he was to ftrain
the words as far as ever fancy could
ftretch them ; becaufe he muft have
foon done with the Text, had he gi-
ven only the proper fenfe of it; and
the people have foon done with him
had he not fought out fome new In-
ventions ? They were at leaft to be
courted with fome fweet and indear-
ing phrafes, and called O Blejfed
Ewes, O believing Ewes, and O Be-
lieving Bees , that fuck the honey of pn
hatred, out of the Wormwood of fin aB-
ed: and told that Chrift accounts
their ftammerings fweet: ^leih,
^!Meih, faith the little one, and the
mother counts it Mufick. And fo no
doubt do the people count this pule-
ing fort of preaching. O he is a
fweet man fayes one, an affeBionate
man faith a fccond ; a melting preach-
er faith a third ; becaufe he layes them
to the Dugs of Chrifts Love, and bids
them fuck, or but open their mouths
R and
24 2 A Continmtion of
and cvy Meih; or if they cannot^affureS
them Chrift will do it for them : not
confidering all this while, that he
entertains their fancy with the fulnef^
and freenefs of thofe Breafts, and
leaves their thoughts hanging and ad-
miring there; merely becaafe he is
dry and empty himfelf, and hath no-
thing elfe to fay.
J\[,C.O Sir, we find that they are
never drawn dry.
C. You muft fay fo, who can fan-
cy you drink up rivers when they give
you but a fip : and fee with much fa-
Epift.tothe tisfaiiion fome Sips of Chrift ftr earning
through a poor creature. And truly,
as long as there are Streams and
Beams, your Poets will never want
rhymes, nor thefe Preachers ftand
inneedofReafon. For Beaming and
Streaming will do the bufinefs at any
time, and make them pafs for extra-
ordinary men : efpecially if they have
the confidence to fay, as this man
doth, that ChriHs j^irit brought that
Text (Ifaiah 40. 1 1.) to his hand ,
and that his foul hath tailed fome
fweet-
the Friendly Debate] 245
fweetnefs by what Chrift gave in upon
that fubjc(5l. For fo you muft be-
lieve, if you will be kind and fweet
as he is, that the Holy Ghofl hath made
him overfeer of the flock of God, and
bid him feed hii Lambs ; and that
Chrift gave in to him this fenfe of the
prophets words, that he will be fweeP
to his believing Ewes, when they ars
hig with Sin. And indeed it is crafti-
ly done to intitle Chrift to their Do-
tages ; for were it not for that, there
arefcarce any fo ftupid that would
not defpife them. But confider then
how modeft thefe men are ; who had
rather Chrift and his blefled fpirit
fhould bear the reproach of being Au-
thors of fuch abfurd Gloffes and ig-
norant Comments ; than honeftly ac-
knowledge that they are the fruit of
their own Fancies, which would foon
be drained, if they did not fupply
them with fuch Inventions.
A^. C. There's no danger of that;
for they are way full men, as you have
often heard me fay.
C\ So they are: very/J///ofimper- *
R 2 tinenC
2AA ^ Continuation of
tinent allegations of the holy Scrip-
ture, of tautologies, abfurd refem-
blances, childifli fancies, and falfe
reafonings : and yet withal \ciyfulf
of Confidence and felf-Conceit ,
which , to fay the truth , you are
all/«//of; a very few excepted.
i\7; C. You are full of wrath.
C. That's a part of your pride and
felf-conceit , to call truth by the
name of wrath , paflion and bitter-
nefs. And to pretend withall that
whofoever fpeaks any thing againft
you , is an enemy of God , unac-
quainted with Religion , a formal,
fuperftitious , or moral man. But
take it as you will, and think of me
asyoupleafe, I fay that, in myob-
fervation , there is fcarce a dram of
that vertue called ^Modefty to be
found, / will not fay in one, but in a
whole Country of you. You are ge-
nerally full of your felves , highly
conceited of your own underftand-
ing ; impatient of contradicftion, in J
fo mnch that my Lord Bacon tells us
he knew fome of your way, who
thought
the Friendly Debate] 214 y
thought it a tempting of God to hear or
redd what might he [aid again ft them.
By which you may fee this is no new
humour, but runs in the very fpirit of
the party : who cannot think that any
underftand fo much as themfelves of
the things of God ; and imagine the
fpirit guides them which muft not
fubmit to reafon ; and that no man
hath any true Goodnefs in him that is
not one of them. Upon which ac-
count they ever fuppofed all men of
whom they had any good thoughts,
to be of their way in their hearts ;
nay, all others of any parts to be a-
gainft them, merely for the love of
the World. This / will evidently
prove to have been a long time , the
humor , even of your eminent Pro-
feflbrs , if it fhall be contradicfled.
And it is the caufe I believe that they
complain fo heavily if any man re-
prove any of them : as if there could
never be found even in good men,
fomething worthy of Reproof, or as
if that which we reprove in them,
were an undoubted part of their
R 3 good-
2^6 'A Cmtimation of
goodnefs. But they will take the li.
berty not only to reprove , but to rail
upon us, as much as they pleafe : and
fay when they have done:, as Mr. S^//.'
fepiftic De= ^^^*"y^ did to the AflTembly, I hope you
his'e'wk"!. 7?'/// pardon me , if zeal for the truth
gainftMr. make me fee another s faults fooner than
my own. Nay, the ordinary people
among you have not the leaft refpecil
to any of ourMiniftersunderftand-
ingand skilly not to fay his Office
and Calling : but, as 1 told you be-
fore, will talk and difpute with him,
find after that reprove and cenfure
him as if they were not only his/<?/-
lows but his judges. Whereas the
very fame men would take it extrem-
lyill, Ihouldany Minifter take up-
on him to controle or but direcSl them
in matters of their 'trade , to which
they have ferved an Apprenticefhip :
though far more eafie to underftand
in a fhort time than the holy Scrip-
tures in many years. Proud fawcy
Spirits ! who undertake to teach
jhofe of whom they fliould learn :
and flight , nay fit in judgement on
thofci
the Friendly Debatf. 2 4 7
thofe , to whom they ought to give
great honour, and to whofc judgment
in many cafes they fhould quietly
fubmit.
It was long fince the zealous com- Fire of the
plaint of a holy man (faith C.Burges) \f^;^^'^^
that men could no fooner get up their 68.
names in the world , and be able rea-
dily and confidently to mufterup a
few places of holy Scripture nothing
to the purpofe, but they thought
themfelves fufBcient to encounter
Mofes himfelfj, fetting upon him as
furioufly as Dathan and jihiram ever
did. Happy were this Age , had it
none of them. To whom it is in
vain to fay any thing; but to them
whom moderation hath yet fome hand
over, 1 fay this of the fame ancient
Father; Their contumacy, I befeech
you, let us flie ; their madnefs let us
abhorr ; left we perifli with them in
the fame vengeance.
N,C, Iconfefslknowfomeofthis
fpirit; but you grant there are o-
thers of more Moderation , that are
eminent for their Piety and all other
R 4 things,
248 A Continuation of
things , who do not forget that they
are men.
C. Our eares are almoft deafned
fometimes ( as Mr. Kathband one'
whom you valued , faith in another
cafe) with thepraifeoffomeof thefe
mens eminent Learning, Piety, Sinceri-
ty , Zeal, &c. '' And truly I believe
'^ feveral of them are learned men,
^' and fuch as are modeft, meek> hum-
^^ ble and peaceable , I judge them
^^ fincere. But there are great num-
^^bers joyn'dwith them, who would
'^ be thought the moft eminent becaufe
^^ moft atflive in that way ; who un-
<^ der colour of zeal of Gods glory,
^^ hatred of fin , dcfire of fer ving God
*^in fincerity; are thruftby an evil
^'Spirit that hath deceived them, in-
" to pride, felf love, raflinefs, unnatu-
^' ral affedtion,uncharitable furmifes,
^' and moft unchriftian judgement of
^^ their Brethren.
N,C. Methinks you judge, and
that very hardly, of others.
C. See your partiality ; and that
fond Afifedlion you have to your
felves.
the Friendly Dehau. 24P
felves, and one to another. Thofe
are none of my words, but were
long ago fpoken by feveral Minifters
of yours (who had fome fcruples in-
deed about Ceremonies , yet never
left our Church) againft thofe that
feparated from it then , as you do
fiorr. Is not this to rejedl that very
thing , when it comes out of our
mouths , which you readily receive
when you hear it from one of your
own ?
But as to the bufincfs of Judging
others , fince you mention it and it is
fo much talkt of, I openly declare,
that I judge no man in things indiffe-
rent ; as you are wont to do , and as
the Jews judged the Gentiles , and
St.Paul himfelf But it is not indif-
ferent whether a man be humble, mo-
deft and peaceable or no. Such I
maycenfure: who, forinftance, are
difobedient to Authority and defpife
their Betters and Governors : And it
is your great fault to cenfure even
thofe that are obedient, and in
things which they profefs to believe
to
2^0 A Continuation of
to be indiflercnt. Is it like good
Chriltians think you, to call thofe
Superfiitiom, Wil-wor/hippers, Compli-
ces cf the Beaft , who declare they do
not believe any Ceremony they ufe, to
be any part of Divine Worjhip , nor
neceffary circumftances of it ; but
that they may be altered by Authori-
ty, to which they are bound to yield
Obedience : and in the mean time to
cry out on thofe who reprove you for
down-right Oppofition to Authority,
for clamour, evil fpeaking, apparent
pride and fuch like things ; which
the Laws of Chrift judge and con-
demn, tell us arc manifefi fruits of
the flejh'^ You cannot think fo fure
unlefs your underftandings be fo
ftrangely blinded by the love of your
felves , that the cjearefl: Truth can-
not enter, if it fliew you your errors.
Indeed if a man merely omits to do
thofe things that are commanded;
but is not unruly, crofs, clamorous,
an oppofer of Laws, a maker of par-
ties , and feparate Congregations,
nor in any other behaviour unchrifti-
an;
the Friendly Debate] 2 1 f
nn ; I think I ought to leave him to
be judged by Chriji , who fearches the
fecrets oF mens hearts, and who on-
ly can tell whether it be weakncfs of
undcrftanding , Intereft , Humour,
Love of reputation and fuch like
Reafons that keep him from obeying
Laws ; or pure Confciencc and in-
vincible Ignorance. But if he be
turbulent , a railer or reviler y a
(lighter of humane Laws and a Blaf-
phemer of Dignities ; if he be one
that makes Divijlons and Offences^ i, e.
Schifmes in the Church ; not I, but
the Apoftle judges fuch a man, not
to be afervant of the Lord lefm Chri/i,
hut of hU own belly. Which that he
may provide for , he Qivcsgood words,
flatters the rich and the great, -and is.
very compliant with all that he hopes
to win to be his followers and friends:
and he ufes alfo fnr fpeecbes (or as
Mr. Tyndals tranflation hath it, fweet
preaching ) he praifes and commends
thofethat follow him, he fuppofes
them to be the people of God, and
pretious ones; he extenuates their
faults
252 A Contimation of
faults and magnifies their good
deeds ; and fo deceives the heart of
the Innocents (as Mr. Tyndal reads it)
or, of the fimple people. Read the
place in Rom. 16. 16,17. where the
Apoftle not merely bids , but be-
feeches them to mark or ohferve fuch
rnenasthefe; and tells you for what
end ; that they might avoid them. But
how is that poflible , unlefs vfc judge
that they are unfit perfons for our
company; and that walk not accor-
ding to the rule of the Gofpel ?
jlV. C, But you (hould judge then
only for your felf ; and labor to hide
and conceal the faults or errors of
your Brethren , For Love covers a
multitude of Sins,
C. ^^ Love is to cover what fins
^' may be covered ; but fome cannot
^*be hid they are fo publickly com-
^' mitted ; and Others may not be
^^ hid though they could ; becaufe
^* the concealment of them will do
^^ hurt to themfelves and others ; to
^^ the publick and the private wealth,
f * In which cafe, it were both ao:ainft:
Piety,
the Friendly Debate. 253
** Piety , Charity and Prudence to
^^ conceal them. And to that pafs
^^ are things now come among us,that
<^in both refpedlsl think your cour-
"fes are not to be covered. Fir fly
^' they cannot ; at ieaft in great part,
•'being long fince made publick to
^'the world , and daily are more
^' and more , by your own printing,
*^ preaching , and private inftilling
^^thern into others. Secondly, they
*' may not if they could, feeing by
*' forbearance all this while, they
*^ have fretted like a Gangrene into
'^ the Bowels both of City and Coun-
** try : and I fear we have kept their
'* Counfels fo long , that many of
*^ them are already paft cure , and we
'^almoft remedilefs in our rents ten- Narration
'^ding unto Ruin. Nay, do not^^^^
frown, as if I were too ftiarp andfe-S^"'^^""^
vere : they are not my words , but i^d by
fome of your own againftthe Inde-'"'^'^'^ ^^'
pendant Brethren y and may with as
much, or more, juftice be now ap-
plied to you all.
iVT.C.I
j'j. A Continuation of
MC. I think there are other cour-
fes more dangerous than thofe, that
ought to be lookt after. Prophane-
tJefi, I mean, is the great thing which
both you and we ought to fetour
felves againft ; and that, Imufttell
you, abounds more among you than
any where elfe.
C. I cannot tell
N. C. What cannot you tell ?
whether pYophanenefs fhould be op-
pofed by both with the greateft Vi-
gour ?
C Be not fo fierce. Firft, I can-*
not tell whether Prophanenefs a-
bound more now , than it did in the
days when you reigned. I told You
the laft time what the JJfemhly told
the Parliament of the fudden growth
of wickednefs fince they began to fit.
And I am fure it was not checktin
the following years; but the feafon-
able exhortation of the greateft part
of the London ^dinifters complained
no longer ago than 11660. of the
great Wickednefs broken loofe a-
mong us ; (which it feems was chain-
ed
the Friendly Debate . 2 55
cd and bound up while the Bifliops
governed ) and, as a great inftance
of it , tell us in the conclulion of
that fad lamentation, thot fome (as nc
are credibly inform d) are grown to that
height of wickednef^ as to worship the
Devil himfelf, p. lo. And then, fe-
condly , I cannot tell whether the
Wickednefs that hath lb much a-
bounded beyond that in Elder dayes,
be not in great part to be imputed to
your felves : For all the time you de-
claimed againft the Ignorance and
blindnefs of the people, you caft ma-
ny fearful ftuajbling-blocks before
them (as an honeft5'^jfi/^-m^;/told
you fome years agone:) while they
could not but fee or hear your fcorn-
ful cenfuring and condemning 0-
thers ; greedy panting after and gaf- Moumfoi
ping at the Riches, Honors, and Pre-^he^"'
ferments of this world; fraudulent IJ'-'?^?^^'!
Circumventing and over-reaching that <:oun=
your Neighbours; cruel revenge upon ^' ' ' ^
thofe you judged your Enemies when
you had power ; bitter quarrelling
and contending one againft another:
and
2^6 ^ Contimatim of
and yet notwithftanding all thofe
fins , which might have juftly caufed
' you to lye intheduft, they fawyou
lifted up r boafting of the glorious
times you had made , proudly appro-
priating to your felves the honour-
able name of Chriftians, Saints and
the godly Party. Nay, the people
were not fo blind but they could fee
how you meafured the Saint {hip of
your felves and others, rather by
fome private opinions or fmall pun-
ctilio's of worfhip; than by the
great things of Faith , righteoufnefs
and mercy. For they found fome
men whofe profefilon of Chriftianity
was attended with thefe , accounted
no better than civil men ; while o-
thers were cryed up for Saints and
Godly , who were much deficient in
them. Befidcs, your Minifters took
no care to Catechife the youth in the
Country ; nay , brought that Ordi-
nance into fuch Contempt , that to
this very day a man is not thought to
do his Duty , who fpends ihe after-
noons of the Lords day , in that in-
fitu^ion.
the Friendly Debate.^ 257
ftru5lion. They heard nothing but
Orations in the Pulpit morning and
evening, and thofe (God knows) very
forry ones in moft places. As for
the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, a
great many honeft hearted people
were frighted from it. You made
fuch lofty Railes (as he obferves) a-
bout the Table , that few or none of
the poor people couldcom.eatit: as
if you thought it a matter of great
piety to confine the Members of
Chrifts Body to a little room, and
caufe his Death and Paflion to be
known and remcmbred only by a few :
as if it were an honour to Chrift and
an advantage to the world, that his
name and memorial fhould perifh
from the hearts and mouths of a great
part of the people profefling his
Name, and ingaged in Covenant to
him. Nay, in many places, they ne-
ver faw it adminiftred to any at all,
for many years : Your Minifters chu-
fing rather to deprive themfelves and
others, of whom they had d: good
opinion of this Heavenly Banquet ;
S than
gtg A Conmmtion of
than afford it to many well-meaning,
though no talking people. And fo
while they complained of their living
in known fins ; they themfelves lived'
many years in a notorious omiflion of
this Duty. Sometimes indeed they
would invite men to this feaft ; but
then by their preaching they hindred
and difcourag'd the mofl: if not all in
a Country congregation ; as if they
were too forward to acknowledge the
benefits of Chrift , and keep up his
remembrance. In fliort, many of
them accounted the people no better
than Heathens , and upon that fcore
would not baptize their children ;
and thereby indeavoured to make
them fo, and quite thruft them out
of the flock of Chrifl;. O that you
would all fearch your hearts (as that
honeft man faid) to find out the true
root of this Spirit of Separation, and
obferve narrowly whether under o-
ther fpecious pretences or with fomc
pious intentions , there were not a
bitter root of pride and haughtineft.
caufing you to affedt Angularity, and
de-
th Friendly Dehatil 2 '59
defire to appear alone to the view of
men ; thinking it below your worth
to be found in Communion with
thofe , whom in opinion you have
laid fo much below your felves.
But let that be as it will ; Thirdly,
I cannot readily tell which are worfe,
the Fuhlicans and Harlots 9 or the
Scribes and Pharifees. This I know,
that there have a long time been a
great many of the laft, who juftified
themfelves and lookt upon all others
as abominable. Dr. Buries ^ I remem- *J'S^^^^^
. A , Sana:, un-
bcr tells us with a great conhdence, cov.an.1625
that thofe who kept heretofore fuch a f^ce. ^ ^'^'
frantick coyle about ceremonies y and
thought they never took their level right,
hut when at every bolt they {hot , they
firuck a Ei/hops cap fheire off his head;
were more fant aft ical, Ignorant) Proud,
fe If- willed , negligent and deceitful in
their particular callings , than many
whom they defpifed , and condemn d to
hell for Carnal men : of any obferving
Eye might eafily difcern. Now what to
think of thefe men in compare with
the other, let honeft <iMartin Bucer
S z tell
2 5 A conttmmton oj
tell you, who was one of the firfl: Re-
formers, and whofe name I know you
cannot but reverence as well as I, on
many accounts. *
N. C. How do you know what
Martin Bucer faith ?
C. I underftand a little Latin;
and befides I have fecn the latter part
of his Comments on the Prophet Ze-
phaniah tranflated into our tongue ;
where he tells us, towards the Gon-
clufion,*^that there were fome among
*^ them under a pernicious Miftake ;
•' abhorring only thck^rofi things, to
" wear brave clothes , to fare deliti-
*^ oufly, to drink and fwill, to whore,
*^ to heap up riches carefully , to be
"Ufurers, and others of the like
'^ kind ; but in the mean time, Arro-
^^gance, faftidious difdain of their
^^ Brethren, to languifli about frivo-
'^lousQueftions, factions, reproach
^ ^ of Gods Word, flanders againft his
^'Minifters, eafily to believe lies,
'<and being raflily believed (or per-
^^ haps by an evil fufpition fuggefted)
l^to fpreadand fcatter them abroad ;
thfc
<(
the Friendly Debate. 26 i
^/ ihefe and fuch like things, faith he,
^*pafs with them fometimes for Vir-
*' tues. Nay, they think themfelves
^' thrice Holy y while they walkabout
^'with a ftoical Supercilioufnefs,
'^bended browes and fad Counte-
'^ nance ; while they wear mean
** clothes, and rattle all mortals in
*^ the ear not fo much with grave
^' Words as with claps of Thunder ;
•^crying out, that aUis^ naught and
^^ wicked. That which I have experi-
^' ence of, as he goes on, and have
*^ good aflurance of its truth by cer-
'* tain obfervation, why fhould not
*• 1 teftify to the Glory of Chrift and
^'the Admonition of the Brethren ?
'^ Of thofe who abound fo much in
"accufing the vices of others, whom
^^ every Garment that is a little more
^^neat, every little Entertainment
'^ that is more plentiful, every Word
*'that is more merry and pleafant
*^ doth much oflFend, that are alwayes
"complaining concerning the want
*^ of Excommunication ; I have found
'* very few ( that I may not fay none)
S 3 "who
26 z A Continuation of
^' who do not labour with remarkabld
/^ conceit of themfelves, infufferable
'^contempt of their Brethren, incrc-/
^' dible impatience of any neglecfl of
'' them, and fometime with other
'^ more grievous Evils. Bejides that
*^they are in a manner alw ay addiSled
'^ to new and ftrange Opinions ; which
*^ tend only to Schifms and nothing to
^* Edification, Novo Herefy is a fruit
^' oftheflejhy -and doth far more mifchief
^^ than all Drinkings^ Whoreings, or
'' Adulteries. On the other fide among
^' thofe perfons whom they deteft
^* no lefs than Heathens becaufe of a
^* life more remifs, and the riches of
^^ the World, and a certain fplendor
^^ or bravery ; I have found very many
'^ who as they acknowledg themfelves
*' obnoxious to fin, fo they think of
" themfelves moft humhly, and of their
^* Neighbours moft Benignely : they
^^ are very candid in their Thoughts
<^and equal in their Judgments con-
^^ cerning others ; alwayes account-
♦^ ing themfelves the worft, t^c And
f' when the Crofs that they have de-
^' ferved
the Friendly Debate. 2 5}
'^ferved lyes upon them; nothing is
^' more patient than they ; none ha-
'*^ zard themfelves more for the Lord.
" Thefe things I have certain know-
*^ ledge of, and why may 1 not declare
^' them to his Glory ? And I call him
*^to witnefs, that in fpeaking this,
^^ I mean nothing lefs than to fet any
"brandah amore fevere mortificati-
*' on of the flefli, and renouncing of
*' worldly things ; or to incourage
'^ thofe that live remifly> or indulge
'* any defire of the flefh : No, I pray
*^ the Lord that he would give me and
^^all his chofen grace, to ufe ftill
" more fpareingly, the things of the
''body our felves^ that we may im-
*'part them more liberally to the
''Poor. May we have grace alfo fo
" to obferve our Tongues that even
*' a little Idle word do not efcape us,
'' but all that is ours may be direcfted
'^ to Profit and Edification. I have
" written thefe things and annexed
"them to my Comments (God
''knows) for no other caufcj, but
^' that I might admonifh the Brethren
S 4 " who
,
2^4 A Contimatim of
"^^ who have the grace to live frugally
^^and feverely, and to be free from
'^ outward Offences ; firfi of all, dili-
^' gently to watch the Devil left he
'^ infeft them with inward ones : and
'^ while he permits them to avoid
" thofe external Vanities and Delica-
^^ cies, he brings them in love withiin*
" ward and far more mifchievou^ Evils;
'^ that is to pleafe themfelves, and to
^"^ delight themfelves in the condemn-
*^ing of others; and then to fport
*^ themfelves, and play the wantons
^^ idlely in novelty of opinions ; from
'^ whence break forth openly, grudg-
*^ ings and Hatreds ; then Fadtions,
*'' Se£is and unfpeakable Scandals in
t^^the Church. That which follows
I fliall omit, as not being fo much to
my prefent purpofe ( though other-
wayes worthy of your notice ) which
was to fliew what opinion wife and
holy men have had of that Spirit,
which now rules in you: and fo con-
clude what we are to direct our zeal
moft againft and affault with the
greateft vehemence. For your part ;
it
the Friendly Debate. 26$
it is manifcfl: you oppofe Conformity
with might and main; and ftudy by
all means to keep ui^ the Separation:
as for Us; it is your defirc we would
fct our felves wholly againft Fro-
phanerte(^, and let you alone. But
we cannot thus abandon our felves,
and throw oflTall care what becomes
of our Church. We hate prophane-
nefs and are refolvcd to oppofe it ;
but we hate Pride and felf conceit
and fa(flion and Separation, and we
are refolved to beat down thefe too.
Andlmufttcll you wichal, that our
Blcfled Saviour was more frequent
and more fcvere in his reproofs of the
Scribes and Pharifees ( how like you
and thofe of Mr. Bucers time are to
them, let the impartial judg ) than
he was of the Publicans and Sinners,
Vwnd whatfoever you think now, here-
tofore I am fure your Minifters grant-
eVthus much, that the Devil gains ^.^^^^^-^^
more by SchifmSy than by coldnef? in agreed up'
Religion ; and that he had rather draw Mmiii^^"^
men from their fir jl love to a fiery ^«^ n'i'e'li bv^Mr.
indifcreet Zeal, than to lukewarmnef^^^^^^^^y
^266 A Continuation of
and indifference. For firfl, hereby
h^ ft aggers many others who were well
fetled, and makes them childrea,
again in underftanding, and turns
tnem about with every wind of Do-
<5lrine ; and Secondly he deprives thofc
men of the happy means of recovery f
which they might have eafily enjoyed,
had they remained in the feUowjhip of
the Church. And would to God you
would once more fadly confider,
whether thofe many revolts that fince
the firft reparation have been made
from your gathered Congregations, to
monftrous Opinions and filthy Pra-
c5lices, have not beena juft Punifli-
ment of you, for your too high Va-
luation of your felves and uncharita-
ble Separation from us. What con-
ftrucftion you make of fuch things we
know not (they are the words of the
oS^^St ^^^^fi ^^^ I mentioned before ) but
'to us that are more Ignorant it feems
very ftrange, that whereas you fiHied
with fo great a Mafh that fcarce one
of a hundred was taken by you and'
admitted into your Churches ; out
of
the Friendly Debate] 26 j
of this hundredth part of yours, more
fhould be found revolting to abfurd,
foolifli, nay pernitious Opinions,than
of the Ninety nine parts you left
behind. It ought in my poor opini-
on to put you into a juft fufpition,
and ferious re- examination of that
way, from which there is fo eafy
a tranfition to fo many dread-
ful delufions ; and through which fo
many have already pafled over unto
the enemy.
N. c. Let thofe examine who are
moft concern'd in it. My mind is
full of fomethingelfe.
C. What's that r^
N, C. You have repeated fo often
the Schifm ( as you call it ) or Sepa-
ration that is made from your Church;
that I perceive it is the great thing
that (ticks in your ftomack, and
which angers and frets you fo much.
And indeed Mr. Bridge told us it
would do fo, in one of thofe Sermons
you mention fo oft. 7he Saints j«^ scaf. Trutia
people of God, faith he, they vrithdraw^^^^^^'
from the men of the World , and dofepa-
rate
2<58 A Continmtion of '
rate from them. Now when we with-
draw from men and from their worfjip,
we condemn their Worjhip ; and the men^
of the world do not love to condemn. To
fepar ate from them and from their Wor-
Jhipy thif they cannot bear. The Saints
do feparate from them, and therefore
there iffucha deal of anger and wrath
in their hearts againji them,
C. Alas ! Good man ; Doth he
think we have fuch an opinion of him
and his Saints, as they have of them-
fehes? He flatters himfelf too
much. It is one thing to imitate the
Saints, and another thing to counter-
feit them. He fliall never perfwade
me that quick-filver is better thani
gold ; and that turbulent and affrigh-
ted imagination can be a furer guide
cither in the choice or exercife of our
Religion, than a calm Reafon, and
a fixed, wellrefolved Judgment. Let
him call himfelf and his party Saints
a thoufand times, or as oft as he
breathes ; it (hall never move me at
all, nor fliall I think the worfe, but
the better, ofmyfelffor being none
of
the Friendly Debate. 269,
of them.Let him pride himfclf in new
devices , of a different worfliip for
the Saints and the reft of the world ;
I am very well contented, if they will
but mthdravp themfehes far enough
from us, and let us be out of the hear-
ing of their Gibberifli. Let him lead
them to the Indies if he pleafe , and
hcfeparated from us by the wide Oce-
an ; it will be a great fatisfadlion to
enjoy our worfliip quietly * to our
felves. Or rather let
h._^_ t. * Yet you muft not hope for this;
im retire into niS For thevmuftftay to power forth
C*.}r^Cf-*- on<4 i-K*inlr no the Vials, which next to the Sepa-
CilOlet, anatmnKnO rating from us, is the thing that
company in the world provokes the Antichriftian party.
*^ ^ 1 r ' 1 • "^^^ "^^y ^^^ ^^ torment the men
pure enough tor nim ofthcworld,andmaltethcmgnalli
L J.1 ' Ti 1 J their teeth, and bite their tonr"^-
but his Books, and no for pain, as he teUs you a
Books but his own;his ^^^^' p^' '^^'
precifenefs, I aflure him , fliall never
trouble me at all And I fuppofe I may
pafs my word for our whole Church,
that they will not complain for
want of his company ; nor think it
any difgrace to our Worfliip that
fuch do not like it, or perhaps abhor
it ; nor any fliame to themfelves that
they will have no Communion with
us.
270 -^ Continuation of
us. There were alwayes people of
a morofe and fowr humour whom no-
thing can pleafe ; no not what they
do themfelves, when once it pleafes'
others too. They muft be of a con-
trary Opinion to the whole race of
mankind : and hate fome things, on-
ly becaufe others love them. And
therefore if they not only withdraw
themfelves from us, but alfoy7/g^^ us
and fet us at naught ; the concern is
notfo great, as to require my care.
Let them call Us the World , and if
they pleafe , the Dogs that are with-
out the Holy City; I value it no more
than the barkings of an angry Cur:
Though in his vain conceit of himfelf
and party , he imagines we lay their
difrefpedl to us mightily to heart.For
this you know is another caufe which
he is pleafed to affign , why the men
of the world are angry with them.
Jhe Saints and people of God do not re-
gard the men cfthe World; and the men
of the World they think fo. Now for
high ana lofty men to be flighted and not
regarded y this makes them angry. For
which
the Friendly Debate. 271
which he cites Dan. 3 . and then re-
peats it. they cannot hear thif, that
they (honld not he regarded, high and
great meny that they (hould not he re*
garded: and therefore no wonder there
u fuch a great deal ofverath and anger
in their hearts againfi the people of God,
But let him repeat it as oft as he will ;
tell him from me, that it moves us
not at ail to want their regard; for
we do not think our felves honoured
by their Efteem and RefpecSl. It is
rather a reproach than an honour to
be commended and praifed by fuch
mouths, as value a compofed counte-
nance and a fet of phrafes; more than
the moft compofed and regular life,
and the beft fenfe in the world. Let
them flight us therefore fo much, if
they lift, as not to move their hat, or
give us the time of the day, or turn
their face another way when they
chance to meet us; it is all one; we
(hall have never the worfe opinion of
our felves or of our VVorfliip. We
do not think them fo able to judge of
true worth, or to difcern between
true
2 "7 2 A Contimation of
true and falfe, good and bad, as to
concern our felves about their Opi-
nion : thefe being almoft the fame
thing nowadays, and though all un-
dertake to judg, yet few know the
dijference. We have fomething eife'
alfo to fupport us than their favoura
ble opinion of us ; and that is,a finc::re
care with unbiafled affecflions to
fearch after the Will of God ; and a
readinefs to receive and do it, when-
foever we know it. Let him bring us
Reafonsin ftead of confident aflferti-
ons, and fee if we will not ftudioufly
confider them ; and if they be good
yield to them. He fpoke admirably
who faid, that our Reafon ought to yield
obedience to nothing butRe^fon: and
that Juthonty U a yoke which none but
God hath a right to impofe upon our
judgments. If God fay it, that's rea-
fon enough : but we fhall never be
perfwaded that they only hear or un-
derftand what he fayes. Let them
talk as if they had not only flept in
our Saviours Bofom ( as 4 Gentleman
1 remember fometime faid ) but even
watch't
the Friendly Debate] 273
watch't in his heart and foul, and as
ifthere were none of his intentions
hid from their knowledg: they will
never gain the greater credit with us,
unlefs we fee more than words and
confidence. No though they fhould
notonly contemn and fcorn us as al-
together ignorant in the things of
God, but pronounce Anathema's and
Curfes againft us as the limbs of the
Apocalyptick Beafl:; Heaven we
know laughs them to fcorn, and we
fliall fmile at their ridiculous pre-
fumption. The Wolves we know will
never be reconciled with the Shep-
herds flock ; and when we have done
all that we can, there will be an en-
vious and Malitious Generation, who
like the rats and other imperfecft
Creatures (which it is poffible were
in the Ark it felf ) will ftill be gnaw-
ing the reputation, even of thebefi:
Church in the World. Every thing
under Heaven is abufed ; yea, and
what Heaven it felf hath fpoken is not
fafefrom Injury and Violence; and
therefore why ftiould we look to have
T a
^)
274 A Continmtion of
a general refpedt, or be caft down
or angry eitlier at the negledl of thefe
men, of, if they pleafe, their Con-»
tempt and Reproach ?
J\[, C. You fay you are not angry,
but methinks you are in a great
heat.
c. Not at their flighting us I aflure
you.
N.c, What then.
c, I told you, that I profefled a
juft indignation at fome things ; and
more particularly to fee the Scrip-
ture fo wretchedly abufed and wreft-
ed, even this very cafe, to juftify
their Separation and withdrawing from
us.
N. C You mean I believe that to
the Corinthians, cited by Mr. Bridge.
Come out from among them, and he ye
feparatCy touch no unclean thinz* 2. Cor.
c. Yes.
K. C. And doth it not require us
to have no Communion with the
wicked, of which your Congregati-
ons we think are full ?
C But
the Friendly Debate . '2 -y 5
C But do you think then we are
all Pagans and Infidels ; /. e. fuch
people as do not fo much as ac-
knowledge Jefus Chrift to be the
Lord ?
N.a God forbid.
C Then you apply thofe words
impertinently to us ( as you do the
reft of the Scriptures ) who are no-
thing like thofe,from whom the Apo-
ftle would have the Corinthians with-
draw. It is an exceeding great (hame
that you have been fo long turning o-
ver the Bible,and talking of the word
of God ; and yet not underftand fo
plain a thing as this. You feem to me
to be like thofe the Apoftle fpeaks of
in another Epiftle; who are ever ledrn-
ing but never come to the knowledge of
the Tr«^/?.Nay,you are like little chil-
dren that tear and rend their Book
into little fcraps ; or like thofe im-
perfe(5l creatures, 1 fpoke of before ;
you nibble at a bit of the Scripture,
and inftantly ftart away, and leave
all the reft. Could you not have caft
your eye back but to the i^,verfe^
T 2 There
275 ^ Contimation of
There you might have feen who they
are the Apoftle fpeaks of. Be ye not
unequally yoked together with Infidels, >
faith he, i. e. either do not marry an
infidel , or do not joyn with them in
any of their rites belonging to their
Idolatrous fervice. Be not at their
Idol feafts; the thing headmoniflit
them of in the former Epiftle , and
touches upon here again (as fome
think) left theyfliould not be cauti-
ous enough in this particular. For
the Apoftle having told them an Idol
vpoi nothing y they might holdthefe
feftival entertainments to be indiflfe-
rent things, and fo when their kins-
folk, or friends invited them, not de-
ny that Civility, to accompany them
to their Temples. Stay, faies the
Apoftle, confider what you do. What
fellowfhip hath righteoufnefs with un-
tight eoufnefsy &:c. thefe things are as
contrary as Light and Darknefs, you
cannot partake of the Table of the
Lord and the Table of Devils too;
as he told them in his firft letter. And
then he renews his Exhortation,
Come
II
the tnendly Debate. ^77
Come out from among^ them , and he ye
feparate (from thofe Idolatrous Infi-
dels) touch no unclean thing ; meddle
* not with their Idolatrous fervices>
nor any of their wicked wayes. You
would be more aflurcd that this is the
fenfe, if you would but turn to the
place from whence thefe words are
cited (as the Margin diredls you)
Ifa.fi. II. where the Prophet bids
not the more holy fort of Jews to fe-
parate from their prophane Bre-
thren; but the whole Body of the
lews to flye out of Babylon ; as any
body may fee that reads the place.
And therefore they cannot be urged
without a notorious force to prove
fuch a reparation as you are in, of
one part of a fociety profeffing be-
lief in Chrift, and baptized into his
name, and renouncing all Idols what-
foever; from the other. AndfoMr.
Geree I remember a difcreet Presby-
terian conlefled, and explained the J^^^^jJf^jJ]' '
words to the fame purpofe that I do. Bernard '
And fo did a noted perfon long before denTes^pi
him ^ and far more largely, in his^^?'^^'
T 3 dif-
2*^8 ACmtinmHonoj
difpute againft the Brownifts. For I
muft tell you, thofe olA Separatiffls
condemned by all honeft Non-con-
formifls in former times , fought to
juftiiie their Schifm from the Church
of Chrift from this very place : and
the very truth is , fo did the ancient
Donatifts. Who, to make a fair
fhewfor their fearful Schifm, cryed
out juft as you do now , Come out
from among them , touch no unclean
thing : Depart J depart , feparate your
fehes. tlave no feOowjhtp with the,
unfruitful works of darknefs. Be not
partaken of other mens fins : What
hath the Chaff to do with the Wheat ?
which are the very words now Igno-
yantly imployed by your party a-
gainft us; with as little knowledge
pf their fenfe and meaning , as of
their being the rotten tooles where-
with thofe Schifmaticks fought to
overthrow the whole Church.
N. C. How come you by more
knowledge than other folk in this
matter? Can you tell what the ifo-
natifis faid ?
C.Yes,
the Friendly Debate . 279
C Yes, without reading St AuftitJ.
For I can believe an old Englilh Di-
vine who lived above half an Age ^^^^
« fince, that acquainted me with this; fard piam
and fhewed withall that thofe proud S^fX'"
people had the fame anfwer to this f'e alifL*
place from that Father, which 1 have natifts.pa9.
now given you. Thefc words, faith ^"* '^^°*
he, They underftand carndlly, have cut
themfelves into fo many divifions, into
little hits; in this Africa alone. For
they do not under (land that no man is
joyned with Infidels , hut he that corn-
mitts the fins of Pagans , or elfe doth
\ favour thofe that do fuch things y &c.
[ jind who hath fellowship with darkne^,
hut he that hy the darknefiof his con^
fenty forfaking Chrift , doth follow Be-
lial ? who puts his part with Infidels,
I but he which is partaker of that In-
fidelity f For that way he ceafeth to
he the temple of God ; neither o-
ther ways doth he joyn himfelf to
Idols.
N. C. I am convinced of this. But
; may we not gather by proportion,
th^t we ought to feparate from the
T 4 wicked
26 o A Contimatim of
wicked fort of Ghriftians though it
be not here intended ?
C. Hear what Mr. J, Geree an-
Kcfolutldn ^^^^^ ^^ ^^is* '^^' ^^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^
c^zo.Cdfci inferred is y that we fhould avoid need-
i644" i^j^ familiarity with the cricked , and
allfociety in fin : to keep them from the
Sacrament if ws can ; But if it he not
incur Power 'y not to omit the Sacra-
ment, hecaufe they partake of it. In
which he followed the refolution of
St. jfuftin who immediately after the
words before mentioned, adds thefe
B.2.againfias my Author tells me ; jind they
c^!T£ which are the Temples of the living
God, and in the midfi of a crooked and
perverfe generation appear a^ lights in
the worlds having the word of life ; no-
thing doth infedi them , which they tol-
ler ate for Unities fake', nor are they
pent up in any fir ait, hecaufe God doth
dweli in them and walk in them. And
they depart in the mean time out of the
evil, and are feparate , at leafl , in
heart ; Hefi happily while they would,
feparate hy thefedition of Schifm, they
jhould rather be fpiritually feparated
/. , ; ; . ■ . from
the Friendly Debate^. 281
from the good, than corporally from the
had. This old Divine alfo admo-
nifhes us very well out of the fame
Father , that when the multitude of
the Aflemblics of the Church are
free from that crime to which Ex-
communication is denounced, it is
very healthful ; and becaufe fo ma-
ny avoid him he will be ftricken with
fear and healed through fhame. But
when the fame ficknefs hath taken
hold of very many , there remains
nothing elfe to the good , but forrow
and bewailing ; that fo they may cf-
cape that deftrudlion which is like to
come on the multitude of the wic-
ked. And in very deed faith he, if
the contagion of finning hath invaded
the multitude, the fevere mercy of
Divine difcipline is neceflary : but
the counfell or enterprifes of repara-
tion are both vain and pernicious, yea
Jacrilegtous ; becaufe then they be-
' come both impious and proud ; and
give more trouble to the good which
I are weak, than they correcft the ftur-
dy ones who are evil. And conclud-
ing
282 A Continuation of
ing this point , he gives this Advice;
Let a man therefore with Mercy cor-
rect what he can ; and that which he
cannot , let him bear with patience :
and with love let him mourn and la-
ment, untill He from above do either
redrefs and amend ; or elfe diflerre
untill the harveft to root out the
tares, and to winnow out the chafF.
And here he alledges the example of
St. Cyprian that holy Martyr, who
had been Bilhop of Carthage y and
defcribes the multitude as full of
grofs fins , yea many of his fellow
Bifhops as fpotted with very foul
crimes ; but yei: he communicated
with them (though not in their fins
M'hich he evermore reprehended, yet)
in the Sacraments and holy Worfliip
of God. Nay, he fliews that our Sa-
viour himfelf did not feparate in Bo-
dy from thcFharifees and Saduces and
multitude of common people, but
met with them at the Temple : And it
is alfo plain that the jifrican Church
which in St. jiuftins dayes befides
rheir evil manners , held fome other
ble-
the Friendly Debate] 283
blemiflics which cannot be charged
on ours ; for by his own complaint
it appears , there were fuch a multi-
tude of Kites and Ceremonies then
in ufe, that they were a very great
burden, and the Church was oppref-
fed and groaned under them. And
therefore 1 think your precifenefs in
feparating from us is more like the
difdainful and proud Religion of the
Scribes and Pharifees ; than the hum-
ble and charitable purity of our blef-
fed Saviour.
AT C If you take thefe old Fathers
for your Guides they will lead you I
know not whither. • They held ma-
ny Arrange Opinions.
C I fuppofe you would feparate
from them too, if they were alive.
But what think you of Mr, Cahin i
He is a more modern Father, and you
may thiqk perhaps more inlight-
ned ; will you ftand to his Judge-
ment ?
N,C. Why.'* What fays he?
C. He tells you , that *^ whercfo-
l^^eyertheGofpel is purely preached
284 A CmtinuMion of
'^ and the Sacraments adminiftred ac-
^t.^Book... cording to the inftitution of Chrift,
sea. 9. ^^ there is the Church of God. And
'' if the very multitude hath and ho-
*'nours thefe; it deferves without
*' doubt to be efteemed and judged a
** Church; becaufe it is certain that
*^ thefe things are not without fruit.
" And if you look a little further to
sca.;ic. *' the next Sedlion he repeats it again
^^ with much earneftnefs. There ap-
^^ pears (in fuch a multitude as he
^^ mentioned before ) neither a deceit-
ful nor doubtful face of a Church : of
which no man may either defpife the
Authority , or^efufe the Admoniti-
ons, or refifi the Counfels, or mock at
*^ the CorifeBions ; much le(i depart
^^from it , break infunder the Unity
*^ of it , and go unpunijhed* For the
^^ Lord fo highly efteems the Com-
'^munion of the Church that he
" counts him for a Traiterous Run-
'' away , and forfaken of Religion ,
" whofoever Ihall ftubbornly eftrange
** himfelf from any Chriftian fellow-
^' fhip : So that it be fuch a one as
^'hath
the Friendly Debate^. 285
*' hath a true Miniftry oFthe word
*' and Sacraments. He fo commends
*' the Churches Authority, that when
*' it is violated, he judges his own di-
^* miniflied . Do you hear this ?
Kc. Yes. But -
C " To prevent all your excepti-
" ons, look further into the i z. Sedl:.
*^ and there he will tell you that the
'^ fellowlhip of fuch a Church is never
'^ to be caft of, though it [warm full of
^' many faults. Yea, and there may
<^ be fome faultinefs crept into it in
'' the Adminiftration either of Do-
" dlrine or of the Sacraments, yet it
ought not to eftrange us from the
** Communion of it. For ail the Ar-
^' tides be not one fort : and there-
i^^ fore we ought not rafhlyfor every
1^^ light diffcntion forfake the Church,
^Cyc. But then, in the next he tells
^you, that in bearing with the im-
perfedlions of life, our gentle ten-
^demcfs ought to go much further-
^ And in the next but one, that it is
one thing tofhun the private company
9fa wicked man ; and another for ha-
'' tred
StSt 16.
285 A Continuation of
" ttedoffuehtoforfdks the Communion
of the whole Church : which is to be
more rigorous than St. Paul. And
although thii temptation to for fake the
Church may by an indifcreet zeal of
righteoufnef?, enter into the thought of
a good man ; yet we jhall find that too
much precifenej? grows rather out of
Pride, difdainfulnefi, andfalfe Opini-
on of holinef^; than of true holineJS
and true zeal thereof. They that are
bolder than others, and as it were the
Standart'hearers to make any depart-
ing from the Church, for the moft
part do it upon no other caufe, but
their defpifing of all men, to boaft
themfelves to be better than others.
But I think I had? befl: let the reft a-
lone; left you fay 1 rail upon godli-
nefs (of which this fepajration is now
grown a great note) though in Mr.
Calvins words.
N. C, We are pot to mind what
men fay ? nor to have their perfons
in admiration.
C. No? Not what your own Mi-
nifters fay ? fare their words are an*
other
the Friendly Debate. 287
other Gofpel with you, or elfe how
come you fo to mifunderlland the
old?
N.C. They are good men, and fo
we value what they fay.
C ric fliew you then that they have
faidthe very fame in behalf of our
Form of Divine Service, that I did
the laft time we talkt together : and
that they condemn this withdrawing^
from us, which Mr. £r/V^tf makes the
markofaS^/f;^.
N.c^ Pray let it alone: It will be
too long.
C. Let me tell you thus much:
that they told their Brethren oi New-
England heretofore, that ;/ we deny
communion with fuch a Church a^ ours,
there hath heenno Church ^ ^ ^ >,• n. • .^
Letter of manv Minjftcrs mold
thefe 1400. years with England requefling the judg.
/ • / r^j 'a- • I ^ mentot their Brethren in New
Whtch a kihnptan mtght tngl. concerning 9. Pofitions
lar^fuUy joyn. Nay, that ^]^Z^^^^
if fuch fcrufla as are ^^^^^\^l;^:Z^^' '^
now in your heads may
take place, it will be unlawful to hold
communion with any Society under Hea-
then : and that as for making an Idol of
the
288 ^ Contimation of
the Common Prayer (which by the way
was a phrafe they themfclves made ufe
of afterward) it might be as well faid>
that they made an Idol of their conceiv-
ed Prayers, And therefore what evil
fpirit is it that now poflefles fo many
of your Preshyterian Minifters, and
hath driven them, as if they were out
of their wits, from our Church, and
their own Principles, and from all
the Churches of Chrift, that now are
or ever were ?
JM.'C. Pray do not fay fo.
c. They have granted me that for
1400. years there never was any
Church, with which we might hold
Communion if not with ours: and I
will prove that there hath been none
forthefe 1668. years.
i\r. C. You are ftrangely bold.
C. No bolder than ^r. Calvin ;
who will give you good fatisfacftion,
if you read the Chapter to which I
referred you, that the Church of the
JeTves in our Saviours time, and the
Apoftolical Churches afterward, tol-
krated greater Vices in manner, and
fouler
the Friendly Debate. 289
fouler Errors in Dodtrine, than were
in any Church from which in his days
a feparation was made. And I will
fhew you diftincflly, either now or
when you will require it, that thofe
Churches planted and watred by the
Apoftles, had thofe Corruptions in
Do^rine , WorJInp, Marnier s , Difci-
pline, and Gouernment , which can-
not be pretended to be in ours : and
yet there was no feparation of fome
Members from the reft : Nay : the
Apoftles notwithftanding all thefe,
fpeak very well in general of all, bc-
caufe of the graces of fome. They call
them all Beliezers & Saints ; and none
knew then any other Men of the World,
and Unbelievers ; but Pagans^ fuch
as did not acknowledge Jefm to be
the Lord.
N, C. i ariWoth to give you fo great
a trouble. But I pray anfwcr me one
Scripture which feeras to be againft
this ; when it faith. The ^Apofiles fe-
parated the Difciples. Adl. I9. 9.
C. Admirably argued ! The Apo-
ftles feparated the Difciples from
U thofe
290 A Continuation of
thofc that were not Difciples, and
therefore we may feparate Difciples
from Difciples.
N. c. How fay you ?
c. The Apoftles I fay were fent to
preach the Gofpel and make Difci-
ples to Chrift, baptizing them into
his Name who believed on him. Thofe
who would make profejGfion of Chrift
they gathered into a new Church
from among the Jews and Fagans who
difown'd him. And accordingly here
in this City having won fome to be-
lieve, and made them Chrifts Difci-
ples, they feparated them from the
reft of the Jevpifh Synagogue, who blaf-
phemed Chrift and would acknow-
ledge no other Religion but that of
^^ofes ; to be a diftindl fociety by
themfelves, and no longer Members
of the unbelieving Synagogue, From
whence you would infer, that one
Chriftian is to be feparated from ano-
ther Chriftian, and believers gather-
ed from believers ; if one part appear
to us Pious, and the other Vicious :
which is juft as if the Apoftles out of
thofe
the Friendly D eh Ate, 2p I
thofc few Difciplcs feparated frgm
the Jews, had made another Icfler
Church, feparated from the reft of
the Difciples,
J\f,c\ Ifeemy Error plainly: And
fhall remember hereafter if I can,
V not merely to nibble at the Scripture^
as you called it, but take it altoge-
ther. But Mr. Bridge affrights us
horribly with one place, which pro-
phefies he fayes of the greatcft repa-
ration in the later daycs, that ever
was. It is in the Kevelationy where the
Spirit cryes. Come out of her my peo'
pie, that you be not partaker of herjins^
there fhall he the greatefl feparation,
and that provokes the Antichrifiian par-
ty\ as his words are, p. 179. of the
Book before mention'd.
C. 1 remember them very well,'
R^i^. 18.4. But do you ftill take Mr.
Bridge for a Prophet ? Have I not
fliown you what a rare Seer he is in
the Revelation ?
N. C. I have heard others befide
him mention this place. Mr. Cafe
I remember gave us this rqafon to
U 2 hope
,2 9 2 A Contimation of
hope that God would be gracious to
Swuri. England, and thatBahylon fliould ftiort-
mentto ly fall ; hccdufe he had begun withfuch
God,p. 6s» a difiinSi and audible voice from Hea-
ven, to call his people out of Babylon,
faying, Come out of her my people, &c.
1 8. Rev. 4. Her Idolatrous bowings,
cringings. Altars, Crojfes, and cur fed
Ceremonies, falfe Wor(hip, falfc Do*
Brine.
C. You need fay no more ; I have
it perfedlly in mind as well as you.
And you were wont I know, in thofe
dayes to believe that they knew the
defigns of Heaven, as well as if they
had been Counfellors of State
in that kingdom : and conceived the
News they told you of what was com-
ing, as fure and certain, as if they
had layn in the Bofom of St. John
as he did in our Saviours. But I
hope by this time you are convinced
they were only drowfy dreamers, that
knew nothing of his Mind : and fee
that they are but like a poor Moufe
which having but one hple, is cafily
caught. Baby Ion, Babylon was all
they
the Friendly Debate] 2pj
they had to fay then, and thither they
run now. Thefe are the Magical
foundsy whereby they would aftonifli
you : the My^ical words whereby they
pracftife all their Sorceries upon you.
Stop but your ears againft thefe, and
you are free from their Enchant-
ments ; for they can never prove that
the Church of England is this Babylon
from whence his people are calFd, or
that (he hath taken fo much as one fip,
or kifs'd the Cup of her Fornications.
JSf. C. 1 never ask them, indeed, to
prove this.
C. No, You took it very lovingly
upon their word : and ran after thofe
whom you fancied and were inamour-
ed of, with an implicit Faith ; as if
you had tafted too deep of the Cup
your felves. If you did but hear them
fay, Myflery, Myftery, (the very word
you know in the forehead of the
whore) prefently you bowed to them,
and thought you were under the
teachings of an infallible Spirit. And
you remember I fuppofe very well,
that thofe two and all the reft of the
U 3 Mini-
2P4 ^ Continuation of
Minivers that were wont to preach
before the Parliament, and in the
greateft Congregations, generally
chofe their texts out of the Uld-Tefia-
ment, feldom out of the New, unlefs
it were the Revelation,
N.C. What of that?'
C. By which means they furnifh-
ed themfelves in an abundant meafure
with fuch Comparifons, as did them
admirable fervice. They could eafily
contrive it fo, that they might feem
fuc!^ a feledl: number as the Jewesy
the peculiar people of God; and we
like the q^gyptiarjs, and Babylonians y
or what other accurfed Nation they
pleafed. And fo applying all thofe
places which fpoke of them., to us
and our times ; they excited in you
the fame hatred againfl: us that was
in the Jews againfl: thofe Nations ;
and made you think it as neceflary to
feparate from us, as for the Jews to
come out oi Babylon, Nay by a won-
derful Art, or prodigious Inchant-
ment rather ( which argues your
great dulnefs ) they firfl: raifed your
fancies^
the Friendly Debate, 2P5
fancies, put words into your mouths,
and taught you to expetfl all that
they had a mind fhould fhortly come
to pafs ; and then they made the ex-
pcdlation they had wrought in you
an argument that it fhould come to
pafs. Thus I remember one of your
Divines incouraged the Parliament
to expecft the overthrow of Bahylorty
hecaufey [aid he, the General talk
throughout the Hou/hold among the Do- idnfori. ser-
mefikks iiy that Chrifi their King ^^aTFgT
coming to take pojfeffion of his Throne>^'^'^^^'^^'
7 his they not only whi/per, hut (peak
puhlickly. No^v you know before Kings
go to a place, their purpofe if firji known
among the Domeflick Servants, and
talk't of within doors firfi, and then a-
broad and Harbingers prepare the way.
This hath been the news throughout the
hou/hold, and Harbingers have beenfent
abroad : It is dfign that he is not far 0Jf;
it will not be long before he come.
N. C, Cannot you repeat a fen-
tence without laughing ?
C.If you had not been very grofs you
Vv ould have either laught or been angry
il 4 ae
3p5 A Continuation oj
at thofe that did not fee or would not
take notice of the cheat. How came
you, I befeech you, to whifper this
and afterward talk it abroad , that
Chrift was coming to fit upon his
Throne ? Had you any relation of it ?
Did you that are his Domefltcks hear
Chrift the King fay fo ? Or were
you not told fo by thefe pretended
Favourites of his, and believed them
without asking whence they had the
News ?
N, C, Undoubtedly we never
thought of it, till we heard it preach't
and proclaimed by them.
C And then when your heads were
fiU'd with this conceit, and they had
fet your tongues agoing, and made
this the General talk ; they ask't you
(ifyou wereapttodefpond ) why do
you doubt of it ? Be of good chear ;
without queftion he is not far ofF; for
otherwife you would never have talk't
fo much of his coming. Which was
no more in plain Bn^lifh than this ;
you would never have believed us, if
1% were not fo, were not thefe rare
devices
the Friendly Debate] 297
devices to fupport the peoples confi-
dence ? And were not the people
very blind that could not difcern
this foul Impofture i Never talk now
of the Sottiflinefs of the multitude
in the Romijh Church ; for they are
cofened by neater Legerdemain
than this. Which is juft as if I
iliould entertain a Child a long time
with hopes of Plums and fine toyes
coming from fome Fair : and when
he began to doubt of it, fliould tell
him; thou haft talk't of them fo long '
my Child, that without queftion
they will be here by and by ; how is it
poffible that thou fhouldeft be in
fuch expedlation of them if they
were not at hand?
i\r. C. No more words : You have
faid enough to make a Child under- ,
ftand the delufion.
C' And yet you fuflFercd your felves
to be wheedled and cheated thus over
and over again : as if you would crofs
the Apoftles rule, and he Men in Ma-
lic e^ but Children in underflanding.
You heard your Minifterspray, for
inftance,
'2p8 A Continuation of
inftance, that Babylon might faH, and
the walls <>/ Jerufalem he built. And
then you heard them ftirring you up
with the greateft vehemence to give
God no refi ^/i/Jerufalem was made a
praife in the Earth. And when they
fetyou all on fire with thefe defires,
then you were very well contented to
be made believe, it was a certain figa
God would do the bufinefs, becaufe
he had put it into your hearts to be fo
carneft for it. How is it poflible faid
they, that there fhould be fuch a fpi-
rit of grace and fupplication poured
fuddenly on the Nation, ifChrift
were not coming down after it ? Since
God hath knit the hearts ofhif people in
fuch a Holy Con/piracy cu it were to he-
fiege Heaven with their Prayers, all is
En^iinccm-f^ot to begiven for lofi. a God hath fa-
wa^^Sr'"''^^^ ^/^^^ ^^^'^^^ ofrefiraint from the
god>P-77- lips of his people, b the Prayers of
Gods people are gone up to Heaven in
great JJfemblieSy and have furrounded
the throne of Grace : God was never fo
tempted to how the Heavens and come
'^P^g=79' downtotherefcueofhis People, c God
will
the Friendly Debate] 2pp
will bow down his ears to them : if they
cannot come to God, he will caufe his
ear to come down to them ; He wtll make
a hardfliift (a^ it were) to hear, ra-
ther than their prayers he loft, d dpag. go.
i\Z". c. You make me blufli to think
how we have been gull'd.
C. Soyou will be ftill. And it is
no wonder they make fo bold with
you ; fince they were fo bold with
Godand with his holy Word; which
they drew to be inflrrumental in the
Cheat. They faniftified every defign
with fome text of Scripture or other,
and with many prayers : till they had
defaced the certainty of Holy Writ ; and
made no other thing of it than a Nofe of
Wax, which may he turned any way as
will ferze our purpofes. ^ You need nir. Knew-
not be angry : they are the words of f^f^JI^^^
one efteemcd heretofore; though l^^J^v^-
know not what thoughts you would "^
have of him, or he of you, if he lived
now. If 1 may pafs my conjedture,
I think he would take you to be the
very fpawn of thofe Erownifts, which
were fo juftly deteftcd in thofe dayes
For
joo ^ Cmtinmtm of
Fot he would hear the fame words and
phrafes outof your mouths now,which
he heard in thofe dayes from theirs,
who cryed out upon an Idol Church,
an Idol Minifiry, an Idol Government :
And, as if they were fure to carry the
caufe by thefe outcryes, they never
ceafed to pour out thefe Accusations,
wherewith the people were terribly
affrighted. For they poor fouls ne-
ver confidered that if all were granted
that fuch words import, it would
not prove a feparation fliould be made
from our Aflemblies. For in what
fenfecanaMinifter be faidto be an
Idol, but in fuch an one as the people
of JSf;^//?;;^ were called fo, by one of
you ?
N. c. What fenfe fliould that
be?
C. rie repeat his words if you
pleafe ;which you may find in a Book
Plain Rig* put forth on purpofe to prevent a
^fil^^^'^' Peace between the King and Parlia-
ment, upon any terms than fuch, as
fliould make the King yield to all
their defires. We have long pre-
tended
1
the Friendly Debate] 301
tended zeal (faith that Author)
againft Idolatry^ when in the mean
time we are all become one Idol. Wc
have eyes and fee not an Army of Pa-
pifts, not only with /^^rm/jt/Fof^ allow-
ed to ufe their own Religion, but
with C^mmiffion appointed ( in event)
to deftroy ours. We have Ears and
hear not the continual blafphemics
againft our God, the reproaches and
flanders againft our Parliament. It
cannot indeed be faid we have mouths
and /peak not y for they that do leaft
commonly fpeak moft ; But I am furc
I may fay we have Feet and march not ;
hands have 7r^> and handle not the
Sword and Shield,
N. C. You love ftill to be rubbing
thefe old fores, as 1 told you once.
C. Not I. But Hove to rub up
your Memory, that you may refledt
how your beloved phrafes are applied
toall purpofes; and fee that an Idol
Minifter can fignify nothing, but one
that doth no more of the work of a
Minifter, than the people, itfeems,
did of your work of fighting againft
the
30 2 A Continuation of
the King ; till they were alarm'd by
fuch clamors as thefe, and aflfraid to
be thought Idolaters, or an Idol people.
In fliort, he is fuch a perfon as the
Shepherds of Ifrael were when they
neglected their Office, and took no
care of the flock comnciitted to their
truft : Froniwhom notwithftanding
the People of Ifrael were not to with-
draw, nor to renounce all communion
with them, and obedience to them.
But befides this I would have you
know, that if there be any Minifters
among us that are but like W(?/i- and
Images of men : there are thofe ( and
thanks be to Gcd good ftore)who hear
and feeandfpeak, and do the will of
God, in the places where they are
fet.
M.C, lam convinced of all this.
C. But I pray once more obferve
whether ail fuch writers and preach-
ers as Mr. Bridge and the reft of the
reparation in which you are ingaged,
do not take more pains to prove the
danger of Idolatry and the hainouf-
nefs of the fin ; than to tell you what
Idola-
the Friendly Debate, 303
Idolntry is, and to prove that it is
Idolatry to joyn with us. Their way
alwayes was to prove little and to ac-
cufe ftoutly ; to declaim loudly, and
not reafon ; to terrify the people by
a dreadful found of words and raife
great pafTions in then:i ; not to inform
their judgments what they are to do
and what to avoid. And for that pur-
pofe nothing hath ever done them
better fcrvice than Bahylorty and ey^-
^ypty and the Golden Calves, and Idol
Minifters, Idol Service and fuch like
words of no certain and determinate
meaning. And to fay the truth, in
this, as Mr. Can himfelf could not
but obferve a great while ago: con-
fifts a great difference between
Chrifts inftitutions, and mens inven-
tions : Wbatfoever God will have %is do*soiRnd
or not do^ he layes dorrn the fame ofenly,^^^J'^^^
precifely, manifejily ; but when iW^/yJ- Balls book
jfeaks by hii Mruments, he jfeaks fo^f^,%%, '
ambigucufly and cloakedly^ that one
knorrs not how to take it, nor which way
to apply it '^. Which if you will but
apply (as Mr. B^// told him) to your
own
504 A Connmation of
own manner of difputing and alledg-
ing teftimonies,it will difcovcr your-
'^ felves to be the deceivers ; who af-
'^ fe(5l ambiguous and equivocal fpee-
'^ches, andfeekby miftsandfoggsof
^' ftrange and unufual arguments, and
'^ fentences wrefted to a contrary
*^ fenfe to blind the eyes and puzzle
*' the underftanding of the fimple.For
^^you hide your felves under the
r^ " terms offalfe Church, falfe Minijlryy
*'falfe Prophets, falfe Worjhip, flying
^^ from Idolatry, taking heed of Idols,
" &c. which you have taken up in a
^^ peculiar fenfe ; and running along
^^ in that ftrain you pervert the Scrip-
**^tures, wrong Authors, confound
''^things to be diftinguifhed, difpute
*' fophiftically ; and while you boaft
^* of clear proofs, dizine precepts, ex-
'' ampler and pradl:ices of Forefathers,
^^ £5^c. You only raife a dull to dazzle
*' the eye. For let the matter be
*^ look't into> and you have neither
*^ divine Precept , nor example of
*■* godly Forefathers to juftify your
^^fcparation. What you teach hath
been
the Friendly Dehate. 305
>' been condemned in Schools , cryed
" down in Sermons, difallow'd in all
^'the Churches of the Saints from
«' the very beginning to this day.
JV. C, You are heated now to fome
purpofe.
C. It is better you fliould blame
my zeal , than I blame my own chil-
ncfs; and I had rather a great deal be
condemned ot fome violence,than of a
lazy indiflference in thefe matters.For
who is there that values his Religion^
and reverences the Sacred Scriptures,
that can hear them thus abufed
and not have his fpirit ftirred in
him ?
J\[.C. There arc thofe whothinJe
they fmell fomething elfe thatftirs
the fpirits of your Minifters.
C. What fhould that be ?
M C, Envy and anger that any
men fhould be liked better than them-
felves. It troubles them to fee any
body leave their Churches and fol-
low our Minifters; becaufe they
would not be thought lefs able than
they. And it's poflible their con-
X gtega-
2 o 5 A Contimation of
gregations may be thin, when fo ma-
ny have withdrawn themfelves from
them.
C. There is an old faying, that no
man ever fought another in the Oven,
who had not been there before himfelf
Had not your Preachers been here-
tofore tickled with the fight of full
Congregations and the fancy of ha-
ving many followers; they could
never think Multitudes and throng'd
A{Icmblies(which many do not want)
fo neceflary to the contentment of
any man of worth among us. And
were not you intollerably proud and
conceited of your felves, this imagi-
nation could never have entred into
your heads, that it dejedls our Mini-
fters to want your company. What
are you that they fliould tremble to
hear you fay in a threatning manner.
We will never hear him mare ? Are
you the only men of Wifdom ; the
ible Beauty of Chriftian Aflemblies ?
Is all their labour loft if you be not
there to commend it ? Are the reft of
the people no better than the walls
and
the Fritndly Debate]
and the feates ? Speak man : Is it a
great courtefie to a Minifter that you
will be pleafed to hear him ? Mull he
rhink himfelf beholden to you that
you vouchfafe him your prefcnce ?
S'ay take it for an honour that you
:ome and help to make a numerous
Vuditory; in which you fliine, as
he precious ftones in a ring i O
nodigious Vanity ! I have heard in-
leed that fome of your Miniftcrs
nade low reverences to you and ftu-
ied to humour you, as if they
lought you deferved much of them
3r honouring their Aflemblies ; but
know none of that mind : If you
AW not come to hear them, you may
ay away, and I wonder who will
ave the worfe of it , you or
bey?
A^. C, If they are not concern'd in
lis, why do they keep fucha ftir
Dout reparation ? cannot they let t\\c
eople do as they will and fay no-
ling ? To what purpofe is it to make
)*great a noife about fuch little
lings ?
X 2 CHow
307
joE A Continuation of
C. How fay you , little things i
Hear Mr. J. Ball I befeech you (a per
fon whom you reverence 1 fuppofe^
who tells you in another Book of his;
grounds of that how fmall foever the things ii
Epiftifto"' themfelves may feem to be, theevii
the Reader cenfequcnccs that follow thereupor
be both many and great. ^^ It is nc
" fmall matter to bury that under the
'^ condemnation of falfe worfhip (aj
'^ Mr. Bridge doth ) which the Lore
'' the Author of all Truth , the De-
^'terminer of his true pleafing anc
*^ acceptable worfliip ; doth allow ir
'^ his fervice. It is no fmall offence
" to forfake the prayers of the Con
^^gregation, to depart from the
^' Table of the Lord , when he call*
'' to feaft with himfelf ; and to breal
'^ off Society and Communion wit!
'' the Church of Ghrift, to fill the
'* hearts of weak Chriftians witl:
^'doubts and diftracftions , as not
*^ knowing what to do , or what waj
^^ to take ; to fpend time in reafon-
** ings and difputings of this kind
** which might much more profitablj
''be
the Friendly Debate] 309
'* be imploycd in the pracftice of Rc-
" pentance and holy obedience ; to
"expofe Religion to contempt, and
'* the truth of God to reproach a-
^' mong them that delight to fpeak
I*' evil. Thefe are fad effecfts of this
*^ Separation which I oppofe : which
*^ tends not (as he fpeaks in his An-
'' fwer to Cart,) to the overthrow of
*^ Antichriffc , but to the renting of
^' the Church, the difgrace of Reli-
^' gion , the advancement of Pride,
*' Schifm and contention, the offence
'^ of the weak, the grief of the Godly
f^ who are better fetled, the hardning
" of the wicked , and the Recovery
^* or rifing of Antichriftianifm. As
for other evils ( which he mentions
not) fuch as the alienation or abate-
ment of affedtion even where there
is the neareft bond of Society ; and
the fowring of mens minds towards
their Governours, in whom they can-
not fo heartily rejoyce as they ought,
while they take them to be the im-
pofers of Idolatrous Ceremonies, or •
linful worftiip ; I will not difcourfc
Xj of
3 1 o A Cbminmion of
of them neither : Not becaufc thej
are light matters ; but becaufe I have
many things to add and would not be
too tedious.
N, G. 1 remember fomething ir
Mr. Ball to this purpofe, and 1 con
fefs it afledled me then , and made
me fearful to fall into the reparation :
efpecially becaufe of another fad ef
fecfl which was ufually obferved in
thofe days to follow thefc Divifi-
ons, among the people of your Per
fwnlion.
C. What is that?
M, C, 1 heard fome fay, that
when men faw thofe who were fo well
conceited of their own knowledge,
iincerity and piety above others, mif-
takefogrofsly, and be fo rigidly pre-
cifc as to make that fin which God
never made fo; they fell intodiflike
even of all the good that was in
them : And difcerning how little rea-
fon they hid for this ftricknefs, pre-
fently imagined they had as little
' fgr the ftricknefs of their lives and
converfations in all other matters.
. •" CThey
the Friendly Debate.
C They told you the truth and
you ftiould confider it now. There
is nothing more difficult than to fe-
ver good and evil when they are mixt
together. The good is frequently
rejedled by fome for the Evils fake ;
and the evil received by others for the
fake of the good. Men are wont ei-
ther to like or diflike all that they fee
I in thofe of whom they conceive a
good or ill Opinion. They that love
the piety of fome Minitters, fall in
love alfo with their precifenefs ; and
they that hate their Precifenefs, may
fall into hatred of their Piety.
MC. I am glad you will allow any
thing that 1 fay.
C Did you think me of fo per-
,verfe a humour, as to fhutmyeyes
againft the light of the Sun , becaufe
an enemy opens the Windows to let
\t in ^ I will ever embrace and juftifie a
truth, come it from whom it will, And
I pray know once for all, that Ida
not approve of thofe who out of ha-
tred to the fuperftition of your peo-
ple, brand all that are of ftridland
X 4 holy
1 1
J12 A Continmtion of
holy lives with the name of Preshyte-
rian, Fanatick or focne fuch like. But
it would do well if you would confi-
fider, that which was the occafion of
this difcourfe ; how much hurt you
do by being fo rigid where there is
no need. This tempts inconfiderate
people on the one fide to think it is
but needlefs fcrupulofity that makes
you careful in other things which
Chrift indeed hath tyed us unto : at
leaft they will put off your reproofs
for their Debaucheries , byaccufing
you of more precifenefs than you
have reafon for. And on the other
fide; you obferving the unexcufe-
able loofenefs of fome that are ene-
mies to your fuperftition ; are temp-
ted thereby to ftrengthen your felves
the more in it, and to ftand the more-
ftifly in your feparation from us. So^
that both fides are the worfe for
thefe dlf?erences , and increafe their
evil humours by thefe oppofitions.
MC. 1 cannot contradidl you in
this,
ai
the Friendly Debate. 313
C. I muft tell you one thing more.
While men on both fides have by
their contentions and hatreds gone
farther and farther one from the o-
thcr; they have fain at laft into moft
fearful Extremities. On your part,
fome have proceeded to that degree
of deteftation, as to condemn us of
Idolatry and Antichriftianifm , and
have fain not only into all the dregs
of BroTvnifme and Anabaptifme , but
into the dotages of the Quakers, and
the men of the fifth kingdom. And
on our part, fome have drawn fo far
from you, as to fallback into Pope-
ry, perhaps into J^/^^z/Jn, at leaft in-
difference about Religion ; virhich
arc difeafes too frequent alfo among
your felves. If therefore the credit
of Religion (as Mr.B^// again fpeaks)
the glory of God, the Souls of Bre-
thren be dear to us, *^ vyhat can we do
<Mefs than by a juft defence of the
" Truth, feek the reclaiming of fuch
^^ as are gone aftray, the eftablifhing
<' of them that are weak in judgment,
^* but zealoufly afledled to the wayes
'' of
2 14 Conmuanon oj
'* of God ; ftop the ftream of fedu-
"cing, free the Godly from unjuft
" imputations, fettle peace and unity
^* in the Truth among Brethren ; and,
*^ 1 may add , to keep the whole Na-
^< tion, if it be poffible , from fuch
*' dangerous precipicies as they are
^^ drawing towards.
N. C. I hope you have a good
meaning : But you fliould confider
that 1 and the Preshyteridns are not
withdrawn to fuch a diftance from
you as you fay fome are. We do
not feparate from the Congregations
as ^Atttichriftian , nor think that you
are not the Churches of Jefus Chrift;
which was the error of the Erownijis
and fuch like Schifmaticks.
C You fliould have added, of Mr.
Bridge and the reft of his partakers
as I have plainly fhown you : and I
wifh I could not fay of fome Preshy-
tcrians too , who once abhorr'd fuch
rents as they have now made. For
what did they mean to call us Babylon
fo oft , if they would not have the
people think ( whatfoever they
thought
the Friendly Debate. j ! y
thought themfelves ) that we were
jtnticbrijlian ? Expound to me all
the paflfages already mentioned ; par-
ticularly that of Mr. Cafe jufl: now
cited : Tell me what you think of the
diftinB and audible voice from heaven
vphich they heard to call you to come out
cfBahylon. Why did he make the
war between the King and You, toEngimcbu-
be the battle between ^lichael and hif rSTiS^^*
Angels y and the Dragon and his ? and '^^'
the peace which fome wiflitand was
fometimes hoped ; a cfnnpounding of
the hu(jne(i between Chrift and jinti-
chrift ? Tell me, if you fay true, why
they took the liberty to tell you,
7 hat when Epifcopacy and Liturgy were Preface to
re ft or ed in Scotland, then Will- worfthip'^^i^^^^f
and damnable Idolatry was ft up ?
And to pafs by thefpeechesof your
railing Vicars , why did Mr. Fr Wood-
cock (in his Ledtures at St. Lawrence
before named) call the Bifhops and
their Partakers 1 cannot tell how oft,
the Fopijh faBion the 'ylntichriftian
faBion, the ^Antichriftian party who
flew the witneffes, i. e> fufpendcd and
filenced
'312 ^A Continuation of
filenced fome Minifters for not con-
forming to the Laws? Laftly why
were thefe Lectures Ordered to be
printed ; and every Pulpit fuflfered
to found with fuch like language? If
all thefe things were faid in heat, the
better to ftir up the peoples paffions;
fay fo, and we have done. You fhall
never hear a fyllable of the late times
from me ; if you do but ingenuoufly
confefs your raflinefs , and humble
your felves for thefe and fuch like
faults. Or if any of you were then
of the mind that Epifcopacy was An-
tichriftian (as it is affirm'd in the
"view of the Covenant, p. 54.) a limb
or claw of the Beaft, as the Erownifls
phrafe was , but now are of another
opinion ; let us know, it , that we
may rejoyce in the change. Wife men
fometimes change opinions and Coun-
feh , though fools do not. And they ,
will change for the better as Mr.
Bridge hath done for the worfe. For
there was a time when he and his
Brethren made this Declaration be-
fore God and all the world concern-
ing
the Friendly Debate. '5 1 n
ing the Engli/h Churches, In rvhich,
fay they , through the grace of God jve Apoioget.
jrere converted , that all that Confci- 1643^^"^
ence of the Defilements we conceived
to cleave to the True Worfhip of God
in them, or of the unwarrantable pow-
er in Church'Governours exercifed
therein , did never work in any of us
any other thought , much lefs opinion ;
but that multitudes of the Affemblies
and Parochial Congregations thereof
were the true Churches and Body of
Chrifif and the Minifiry thereof a true
^SMinifiry ; much lefs did it ever enter
into our hearts to judge them Antichri-
flian. Why they fliould fay ^J^ul-
titudes and not all, fince they had the
fame form of Divine fervice and were
under the fame Government, I know
not ; for it cannot be meant of fuch
Churches where the Minifterswere
chofcn by the People , which were
but few. Nor am I concern'd to
know the fenfe of thofe words ; but I
would gladly know if they pleafe,why
they cannot now fee multitudes of
fuchChurches;and by what new light
or
Si8 A Continuation of
or Revelation Mr. Bridge hath dif-
covered our Worfhip and Churches
to be Antichriftian, from which the
Saints muft come forth and feparate
themfelves. Or rather (for now you
would have me fpeak to you alone)
why fo many Fresbyterians withdraw
themfelves from our Prayers and Sa-
craments , and hold feparate Aflem-
blies in oppofition to ours ? You do
not make your caufe the better but
the worfe by this acknowledgment^
that you do not depart from us as no
true Churches of Jefus Chrift : and
ftand condemned by your own decla-
red Principles , and all the writings
of your Forefathers. To for fake the
true Churches of Chriji (faith Mr. J.
Goodwin himfelf ) and the t!Miniflry
Letter to ^^^^^^/» Inhere men have been converted
Mr.Thomas and buflt Up, and have converted and
from Mr. built Up fo many , with thefetting up of
icfoS'he"^^^^ Churches y againfi the leave and
dependlnt. ^'^^ ^f ^^^ ^^^^^ ^Ugiflrate y without
the confent cfthofe Churches departed
fromy and to the fcandal and grief of
fo many godly (iMiniJfers and Chrifti-
anSf
the Friendly Debate] 3 1 9
atis , nay the fcandal of all reformed
Churches 'y and thii under the pretence
of fpiritual power and liberty pur chafed
for them hy Chrift ; had need have a
clear and full proof, and not he huilt
only upon fuch rreak and flight grounds,
as flattering fimilitudes y witty al/ufions,
remote confequences j ftrain d and forced
interpretations from hard and much
controverted Scriptures. What clear
proofs he afterward found I cannot sionCoU.
tell , but when he had rent himfelf^
even from the Presbyterian Churches,
he could not but give this Honorable
Teftimony to ours ; that travellers
from all parts confirmed , that there
was more of the truth and power of Re-
ligion in England under the late Pre-
latical Government , than in all the
Reformed Churches befides. There-
fore I muft befeech you again to con-
fider what folid grounds you have for
forfaking fuch a Church as this; which
hath been thcMother of fo many pious
fouls, and extorted fuch praifes even
from thofe undutiful children, who
©ut of I know not what humor, life
up
A Contimation of
up their heel againft her. What
fpot do you fpy in her now, which
you could not difcern heretofore?
Or if there be any, what foul Mon-
fter fhould it be that thus affrights
you, if indeed we be not the Beaft,
nor any limb of hin) ? You that pro-
fefs fo much tendernej^of Confcience ,
fliould rather methinks, be horribly
afraid, fince you think we are a
Church ftill united to Chrift, left by
feparating from us , you cut your
lelves off from him , and run in time
to the greateft extremities , and ut-
terly renounce and difown us. For as
Mr.B/^// hath well obferved, 'Ihey that
have once broken off from us , have run
from one error into another y after the
fond imaginatioft of their heart , ////
they have dafht themfelves againft the
Rocks. And indeed how can you ex-
pe(fl it fliould be otherwife. '* There
^' is but one Body, the Church ; but
'^ one Lord or Head of the Bodv,
** Chrift : whofoever feparates from
** the Body, therefore feparates from
[' Chrift in that refpedl. And if we
with'
the Friendly Deme. 5^
'^withdraw our fclves from him
^' where he gracioufly invites us to
'^feaft with him^may we not juftly fear
'*hc will withdraw himfelf from us,
^^ and make us feek when we fhall not
** find him ? This voluntary repara-
tion from the Lords Table and the
^' Prayers of the Congregation, is a
'willing excon::imunication of our
' felves from the Vifible tokens of the
' Lords prefence and Love. And if
'it be a grievous fin in Church
' Governors to deprive any Membeif
'of the Church of all Communion
'with the Vifible Church upon light
' and unneceflary occafions,is it not a
greater fin in theMembers to deprive
' themfelves of the fame Communi-
'on upon the like or lefs occafions ?
kVithout all doubt, this fin will be
mniflied with blindncfs of mind if
ou perfift in it. Such offenders
laving run ( as 1 am able to prove )
rom one thing to another with the
reateft confidence, till they came
o think themfelves infpired and full
f the Holy-Ghoft, even when they
Y rail'd
^2 2 A Continuation of
raird and reviled all other Chur-
ches : and when thofe heates failed,
to think that all Religion was a
mere hypocondriacal Delufion. This
Mr. Calvin aflured you long ago
would be the fate of Separatifts from
fuch a Church as Ours ; Becaufe they
dijfolve (faith he) the facte d Bond of
Unity y no man p^all efcape this jufl pu-
nijhmerjt of his divorce y that he fhall in-
toxicate himfelf with mofi pejiilent er-
rors, and mofi foul dotages^ Nay,
your own Minifters could admonifh
Advertife* Y^vi heretofore ; that when Religion
ment^upon either hy choice or force is propagated in
before the Comers, many Heretical DoBrines are
the Bible hatched and preached, and afterward,
^^45« If Y\(\ay he, printed too ; which had not
been conceived nor divulged if the Au-
thors of them had continued in the focie-
tyofpubliqueAffemhlies. And there-
fore you, fhe thinks above all other
men fliould dread the fadeflfedls of
this new feparation ; as much as
thofe men do the fea, who feel them-
felves yet wet, and come forth drop
ping from a wreck. Remember youri
ow
the Friendly Debate. 523
own fad complaints and Lamenta-
tions, the Shriekes and the Crycs,
which are yet frefh in our ears ; Re-
member what Rocks you dalh't a-
gainft when you had once forfaken
our Company and broken the Bond of
Unity, Call to mind how many per-
fifted; and in what danger all were
to be loft. Did you not pray the
five Brethren to confider in the begin-
ning of the Storm , that in their
Church way into which many were
running, there would be no end of
Schifms : but every two or three
members if they pleafed might fet up
a Church by themfelves ? Witnefs
the rent in that Church where Mr.
BridgCy^ndi MtSympfon were teachers
at Rotterdam. Where Mr. 5;m/?/o//,as ^"f^^po^^*
Mr. Edvpards informs us, having on-
ly a Merchant and his wife, joyning
with him at the firft, feparated from
Mr. Bridge and fet up a new Church
of their own : of which a Woman
(Mrs. White) was the foundrefs as
Mr. Bn<^^^ himfelf hath faid. And
when they were thus torn in funder,
Y z both
324 ^ Continuation 0}
both parts of the Divifion fell toge-
ther by the ears among themfelves.
There was a new rent in Mr. Sympfons
company, and Mr. Ward colleague
t® Mr Bridge, was depofed from his
Miniftry and office by Mr. Bridge his
Church, for fome frivolous differen-
ces. And fuch was the bitternefs, re-
vilings and reproaches exprefled in
the letter that pafs'd between them,
that the Readers ears would tingle
fliould he hear them.In fhort, the Jews
and the Samaritans were not greater
Enemies, than thefe were one to an-
other ; as my Author affirms.
N* C, Mr. Edwards you mean.
C, Yes, and 1 hope you think him
a good one now, as you did hereto-
fore. If not, I can juftify what he
fayes out of a learned Dutch writer if
you pleafe.
i\7". c. I am not much concern'd
about this.
C. But you are concern'd to keep
in mind thefe fcandals in feparate
Congregations. And it will do you
no hurt, I am fure, to reflecil a great
deal
the Friendly Debate] "325
deal farther back ; and confider what
work the ancient Scparatifls of our
Nation made in the fame Country.
John f on and ^infworth fell out at Am-
fierdam, and their Congregation was
divided into two, one of which ex-
communicated the other. The two
Johnfons alfo, though Brethren in na-
ture as well as Religion, fell into
fuch a fiery contention upon a fmall
occafion, that George the younger,
became a Libeller and loaded his Bro-
ther and others with many reproach-
es, and that in Print ; to remain for
ever. The Elder broke fellowfhip
with him and with his own Father
( who took part with George and curf-
cd the other with all the curfes in
Gods Book) and this breach was
confirm'd by the heavy fentence of
Excommunication, and both Father
and Brother delivered up to the De-
vil. But then at Leiden, J. Smith
condemned them all, and accufed
them of Idolatry ; telling them that
their Conftitution was as very a Har-
lot as either her mother England, or
Y 3 Grand-
325 A Continuation oj
Grandmother Roms; and that the
Separation was the yi?^;/^^/? andfaireji
daughter of Rome the Harlot, The
reafon was, becaufe they look't into
their Bibles when they preach't, and
Into the Pfalter when they fung ;
For the Holy Scriptures , he faidj, were
not to be retained as helps before the eyes
in time ofworjhip, and particularly that
it was unlawful to have a Book before
them in finging of Ffalms, Befides,
their Government he thought was
Antichriflian ; becaufe they joyned to
Paflors, other DoSIors and ReSiors,
which was an humane invention. And
fo he fell to the Anabaptifts; where
he madealfoa newfedt, by baptizing
himfelf. If you pleafe to have fome
of his Words perhaps they may be
ufeful to you ; when Popifh prelacy.
In his Book a faith he, was fuppreffed, and the
called, the -»^ . « i -n r / • n /?
Diflferences '^Jrtformed Presbytery (viz. Jrajtors,
chesl^ti^'^^ Teachers and Elders) fubftituted ;
separation, u one Jntichrifi was put down, and
*^ another fet up in his place: or
*^ the Beafi was fuppreflcd and his I-
" mage advanced. And therefore, as
<'they
the tnemly LJet?ate. 527
'^ they that fubmit to the Prelacy are
^^ fubje(5l to that wo oiWorjhipping the.
" Beafl ; fo they that fubmit to the
^^ Triform* d Presbytery, are in like
*^ manner liable to that wo denounced
*^ againft them that Wor[hip the Image
<' of the Beafl,
i\7". C. I perceive what you are go-
ing to fay, you would have me mark
again, how every Party paints their
Oppofites in the fhape of this ugly
Beaft ; to terrify fimple people with
it, as we do children with Bug- Mr.R. Bern.
kf»«r^ Plain Evi'-
C. Andwhofoever reads and con-^^iap.^
fidersthefe things will be I think, of
old Mr. Bernards mind who told this
Nation threefcore years ago, that ii
if better to endure corruptions in a
Church , than be turmoiled with fuch
diflraBionSy and to be brought into fuch
confufions : even a Babel of languages,
of opinions, of JJfemblies, of Govern-
ing, of Government and whatnot. It
is a blejjing to be Well ; but a greater
hlejjing to know it, andfo to abide. For
befides other Separations which I
Y 4 could
326 ^A Continuation of
could tell you of, the iffue and refult
of all was this ; the decay of all true
piety ^ and a turning all Religion into
wrangling, cenfuring and condemn-
ing one another. For, as all that
have declined to that Schifm ( mark it
I befeech you, if the characfter do not
confUtati- concern fome of you ) ^ic found to he
^^^^^^^^"escceedin£ proud, and difdainful to-
paratift a* , / / i • i i
greed upon ii?^r^ J all that are contrary mtndedj
the^oynt ^ Tea cvcnfuch 04 ( before they were in-
manrnon/^<^^^ mththat kvcn) werepattems
conf. Mini= (,f ^// Iq^q modeffv and humility to
fters, pub- -^ r. .// ; / i i
\^{[\zdhy^^r.cthers : Cio vptll they not acknowledge
W. Rath-- ' /• I /7 ; /
hiiid,i64.i. nor reverence any of the mojf excellent
part.4.p.62. Graces that God hath given to any of his
fervants among us, nor Jo much refpedl
them, a^. the very Papifis will do. Noy
they pr of e(? greater deteflation and de-
ff>ighttoihe mofl godly and mop fincere
men among us, than they do tofuch as
are mofl notorious in Prophanenefi and
Malice to the Truth. And a Divine
more ancient than thefe, gave this
remarkable Defcription of the fruits
produced by feparate Congregations.
Look upon the people faith he, and
you
the Friendly Debate] ^2p
you fhall fee very many who not regard' ,_c-|
ing the chief Chrifl tan Virtues and godly
duties ; as namely to he meek, to he pa- ford^phm *
tienty to he lowly, to he full of love and f^'^^^^^''^^
mercy, to deal uprightly and jufily, /o "nderwices;
guide their families in thefearofGoddKatee\cry
with wholfome InflruBions, and toftand cEi^but
faft in the calling in which God hath fet"^^^^'}^^,
them ; aive themfelves wholly to this,^^^^,"^<^^^^f^
even en tftt were the Jum and rtth (?/on,An.is9o
Religion, namely, to argue and talk
continually againft matters in the
Church, againft Bifljops and Minifters,
and one againft another on hoth fides.
Some are proceeded to this that they
will come to the Ajfemhlies to hear Ser-
mons and Prayers of the Preacher, hut
not to the Prayers of the Book : which I
take to he a more grievous fin than many
dofuppofe. But yet this is not the worft ;
Forfundry are gone further 4ndfaln into
a damnahle Schifm ; and the fame fo
much the more fearful and dangerous,
in that many do not fee the FoulneJ? of
it : hut rather hold them as godly Ghri-
ftians ; and hut a little overfiot infome
matters. Which words I have the
rather
Vtq a Continuation of
rather recited, that you may fee
what thoughts the moft moderate
men heretofore h^d concerning the
way into which you are falling.
N.c. Truly, I can fcarccfee for
what end you have told me all thefe
old ftories.
c. That's ftrange ! I was admo-
nifliing you of the care that you
fliould take above all others, not to
run into thefe dangerous paths : who
have not only heard all thefe things
from thofe before us, but alfo feen
with your eyes, and felt by dear ex-
perience, the great fwarms of Sedls
and Herefies that have come out of
feparate Congregations; and the
miferable havock they have made of
all true Religion and Godlinefs. Now
what fecurity I befeech you, have any
of you that the Congregations you
begin to draw from us, apart to your
felves; Ihall not break in time into
as many little fractions, and produce
thefe bitter fruits which 1 have menti-
oned ? what charm, what power have
you to keep out this evil Spirit,whicH
al-
the Friendly Debate. . 351
alwayes haunted the reparation ? All
the Authority which your Minifters
may think they have, hath no foun-
dation but the Pafllons of the com-
mon people. It depends for the moft
part on the fancies of rude Artifans, -
and Ignorant Mechanicks. Thefe
will make their Divinity for them;
and they muft ftill be inventing new
conceits to entertain their Imagina-
tions. They are fervants to fuch a
world of Matters, that it is evident
they have reafon to fear their own
fide, as much as ours. And when
they have done all they can, they arc
liable to be thought Impoftors, as
oft as any man thinks he is taught of
God, and hath a new light fhining
into his mmd. Then fhall you fee
again all thofe wild fancies fly about
which are now in great meafure falln
to the ground. Old England may be-
come as mad as the Nevp : and fuch a
woman as Mrs. Hutchinforiy that Ihall
take upon her to repeat your Sermons
as (he did thofe oiyir. Cottons \ may
be more cryed up than all the Mini-
fters you have. N, C.\t
33^ ^ Continuation of
N, C. It is impoflible.
C. That which hath been done
more than once, may be done again.
For the Wine of reparation ( as two
i\r^7r-£^^/^«^Minifters call it) hath
fuch a fpirit in it as flyes up furioufly
into mens heads, and works with a
reftlefs violence there. It hurries
and Mr. them head-long as they fpeak, to
D^nSof ftrange diftances ; that in feparating
Q^^J^^y!' f^om publick, they fepar ate from pri-
vate \ in feparating from corrupt Chur-
ches {as no Churches ) they fepar ate
from the pure ft even thofe of their own ;
in feparating from pollutions in Gods
Ordinances, at laft they fall to the
ftormingof fome, if not the utter re-
nouncing of all the Ordinances them-
f elves. For when rafh andfudden men 9
are grown Mafters of their Confciences ;
it troubles not them from whom they di-
vide y nor whither they run in fepar ate
Ttayes, At the very next ftep they
are under the Miniftration of the Spi-
rit, tis the Phrafe was in the late times.
They live upon Pure and Naked God
in themfclves, unclothed of flefli
and
the Friendly Debate I 3 j j
and Form. They are rifen and caught
up out of flefli into Spirit, out of
Form into Power, out of Type into
Truth, out of Shaddow into Sub-
ftance, out ofthe Sign into the thing
Signified. And fo they drink wine
new in the Kingdome, even new in
the Kingdom ; not in the Oldne(i of
the Letter, but in the Newneiioi the
Spirit.
A^. c. I remember how this W%ie,
as you call it, wrought in the late
times, and there are none figh more
than we to think ofthe fpiritual mad-
nefs that then raged. And I afTurc
you we bewail and lament with many
tears our prefent Divifions ; and have
kept as many dayes as there are
weeks in the year to fcek the Lord
for the healing of our fad breaches.
C^ To what purpofe is that, as
long as you keep them wide open, by
withdrawing yourfelves from the
publick Aflemblies of Gods people ?
You had better fpare all that breath ;
for it is as ridiculous, as if a man
fliould cry and roar under the fmart
of
534 ^ Continuation of
of a wound, and yet would not keep
himfelf from raking in it continually
with his nailes. Why do you not
ufc the means of Union if you truly
defire it ? What is the caufe you
follow not fuch Chriftian Counfel as
I made bold the laft time to leave with
you ? That would be more effevftual
than all your fafts and Prayers, which
in truth ferve only to continue the
D#ifion and keep our Wounds gape-
ing. For they are the very things,
as you ufe them, which make the
Schifm ; and yet they perfwade the
people,that^o« are not too blame, but
the Bijhops only.
Kc. OSir, that you would but
lay the Saddle upon the right Horfe,
You load us with many accufations,
but the Biftiops are in fault who will
not remove the fubje(5l of thefe con-
tentions. If you were not partial
you would admonifh them, as well as
us : and tell them they ought not to
ftand fo precifely upon indifferent
things , and alter nothing. This
would be a fhort way to remedy all
our
the Friendly Debate. 555:
our evils, to take away the things
which are offenfive to the weak, and
fo become inconvenient, if not un-
lawful. And you know who faid,
that Contentions retaining of Cuftoms
is a turbulent thing as well as Innno-
'vations. Why do you not put them
in mind of thefe things, but fpend
your time only in telling us our.
Duty ?
c. I am not fo well conceited of
my felf as to think 1 am alike able to
judg, what is convenient, and what
is lawful. For it requires not only
great underftanding in the nature of
things, but alfo in the nature and
temper of men, in the ftate of affairs
at home and abroad ; together with
diligent and long obfervation, and
indeed all the pcrfedlions of a pru-
dent Governor ; to be able to deter-
mine what is moft expedient for a
Church or State ; But every Chri-
ftian may foon refolve or receive fa-
tisfacflion about what is finful, or
permitted to him. Befides, were I
never fo skilful, I Ihould not have
the
33^ -^ Continuation of
the confidence ( to which it feems
you are arrived ) to inftrudl my fu-
periors : It is enough for me to deal
with my equals. Though modeft
propofals and humble defires with-
out any noife and ftir, I prefume
would never be difliked from any of
us : and had you always taken that
courfe from the beginning > it had
been better for you:But youwere ever
for ajfertions andpofitiom (as my Lord
Baconlong ago obferved) and filled
all the Nation as much as you could
with difpleafure againft their Gover-
nors ; and taught them to efteem the
comipounding of controverfies to fa-
vour of mans Wifdom and humane
Policy.
JSf. C. No, we are now for an Ac-
commodation.
C' You do well to put in that
word now , for it was ever otherways
heretofore , and Books were written
againft it ( as I will fhew you if you
defire it ) when you hoped to carry
all before you. And it is a great ar-
gument of your headijnefs and paifli-
on
th Friendly Debate] jj'-j
on(to fay no more)that when you had
power to accommodate Differences
you would not; and now you cry out
for it, when it is neither in your
power nor ours. For why do you
lay the Bijhops fliould remove out of
the way the things that trouble you ?
Have they power to alter laws and
change them at their pleafure ? Are
not they bound up and tied to obedi-
ence as well as your felves ? All that
they can do is but to joy n their Votes
together with many other, to fettle
that Religion which is found and
good ; it being the foundation of all
Laws and the common bond of hu-
mane Society : and when it is efta-
bliflit to take the fame care that it
be preferved from fudden and unne-
ceflfary alterations in any thing be-
longing to it ; which are always dan-
gerous not only to Religion , but to
the Civil Peace. Now fince it is plain
they judge it not fit to promote a
change becaufeof fome mens diflike,
and none ought to be defired, in my
poor judgments againft the Opinion
Z and
Vog A Contimation of
and without the confent of our Spi-
ritual Governours ; who have more
Wifdom, and not lefs piety fure
than we ; what have you and I to do
but to feek peace and unity fome
other way without alterations? A
Schifm you fee is moft pernicious,
and like to prove moft deadly to all
Religion
i\T C Let me interpofe one thing
which I forgot before. We are not
formed into Churches , and fo do not
make a ftridl feparation from you as
others do.
C. So much the greater danger of
all the mifchiefs before mentioned :
that men Ihould grow wild and mad
when they are at fuch liberty, an4
under no government but their own
fancies. This your Minifters can-
not but underftand well enough: and
therefore muft either come to us^ or
caft you into a great many little Bo-
dies by your felves.
JM. C. I wifh heartily we were uni-
ted to the main Body of your
Church.
C.I
the FrifYidly Debate] 3 39
C. I am glad to hear you fay fo.
But it you would have your wifhes
accompliflied , you muft contribute
with all your power to the ending
our quarrels , by ftudying thofe
things that make for peace. Do not
talkot the Duty of your Governors,
but think ferioufly of your own. And
fince it is manifcft as 1 told you, that
they judge it not meet to promote
any alteration of that which hath
been fo long fettled ; and fince it is
granted by fo many of you that the
things enjoyned by Law are not un-
lawful , and by fo many of us they
are thought not to be inconvenient ;
leave thefe earneft indeavours to al-
ter the haws and alter^owr fehes.
N. C. What would you have us
do? '
C. I would have you fettle your
felves (and not be thus wavering) in
this perfwafion , that -it is lawful to
joyn with us in the Worlhip of God,
as noTV eftahli/hed : And then refolvc
that it belongs only to thofe to de-
termine of the Conveniency of
Z z things.
54 o ^ Continuation of
things , who have power to do what
they beft like, and wifdom and judge-
ment to weigh all circumftances and
make choife of the beft courfe : And
that if they miftake, their error fliall
not be imputed to you, who have no-
thing to do in fuch matters. After
this , weigh ferioufly and often the
great mifchiefs of Separation, which
far exceed all the Inconveniencies
which can be fancied in all our Cere-
monies. And then your Minifters
muft indeavour to make their ac-
quaintance and followers of this be-
lief; and confirm them in it by com-
ing to the Common -Prayer, and in-
forming them that all the ancient Pu-
ritans ( as they were called) did not
hold it unlawful to joy n with us, but
the contrary, to feparate from us.
Nay, let them teach them that it is
a great deal better to do fomethings
which poflibly they had rather let
alone , than quarrel and break the
peace of the Church of God. They
have the Example of Mr. Calvin for
it, who finding that during his exile
from
thf Friendly Debate] 34 1
from Geneva , they had brought back
the ufe of the Wafer Cake of un-
leavened bread, would not contend
about it , though he did not like it.
He knew as well as you , it was not
commanded by God , and that there
was no neccfllty of it ; nay, that this
fort of bread had been the invention
of the Papifts , and abufed by them
to fuperftition and Idolatry; and
that they made unleavened bread no-
ceflfary to the Sacrament , and urged
it as of Divine Inftittition , for which
caufes he diflik'd it ; but yet he
would not ftrive $ though he would
not have been to break a cuftom , but
only to go back where he left them ;
becaufe he faw it would make a rent.
Would you would but imitate his
DIfcretion, and we fliould fee an end
3f our Difputes ; Efpecially if you
would not be fo peremptory; for
:here can be no peace while you affirm
with fo much confidence that this
and that doubtful thing is the Mind
if the Lord, St. Paul was content
|\as my Lord Bacons I think, fomc
i " "'"
342 A Continuation of
where obferves) to fpeak in this man-
ner in fome cafes, Ihusjay I, tiot the
Lord : and according to my counfeL
But now men do fo lightly fay. Not
I, hut the Lord, yea and bind it with
fuch heavy denunciations of his judg-
ments ; that they diftradl poor Souls
that would willingly do all that God
would have them> and make Diffe-
rences fo wide , that we can never
come together. Be modeft there-
fore in your affedtions, defires, and
all your carriage and behaviour.
Speak well alfo of the prefentMini-
fters that conform in every thing to
the Law, who approve themfelves to
God and menby their diligence and
piety. Be not ready to proclaim the .
negligence or perhaps evil manners
of any. Hear all their inftrucflions
with Reverence, and if you be other- 1
wife minded in any thing , keep it '
to your felves, and make no ftir about
it. In fhort do all that ever you can
without finning ; and if you do not
condemn nor feparate from thofe
who do more than you ; then your
Omif
the Friendly Debate . i^ 2
Omiflions may be pardoned, and you
may more reafonably cxpecft indul-
gence or accommodation , when you
do your Duty as well as you arc able,
than now that you are difobedient,
and obftinately refufe to obey Autho-
rity in things you acknowledge not
unlawful.
i\r. C. But there fhould be. fome
yielding on both fides.
C. Would you have us yield to
thofe, who will not bend to their
own Reafon and Confcience ? Firft
do what you can ; otherwife we can-
not fo much as yield that you are
throughly fincere and honeft hearted.
And let me admonifli you of this al-
fo; that unlefs you reform your
felves in fuch things as I have menti-
oned, all that can be fairly yielded
will not do thebufinefs. For when
you have any hope of obtaining all
you wifli, nothing will ferve lefs than
that. It will not content you to
have your confciences fatisfied, but
we muft fatisfie your Fancy too : For
I have been informed that there was
Z 4 fome
344 ^ Continuation of
mlwai- ^^^^ inclination even in^ueenElr
fe|ham zaheths days , to remove the Cere-
Knewftubs monics of the Crofs , Surplifs and
JttoDrf^ kneeling, ifthat would give content.
johnBurgesgut thofc of your peifwafion who
were confulted with , returned this
Anfwer ; that they muft not leave a
hoof behind, which Anfwer, faith
my Author, made them all the fa-
tter.
N.C. It v^as their Confcience
therefore that was unfatisfied.
C. And there is nohopeoffatisfy-
ing fuch Confciences, as ftill fay
like ^Ufes to Pharaoh , Thus faith
the Lord ; in every little point. No-
thing will pleafe them , but pulling
down all, and rearing another build-
ing after a new model of their own ;
or^ in their phrafe, according to the pa-
tern in the f$JMount,
N, C, I muft talk with you about
that anon, if lean; but 1 hope there
are few of thefe rigid men , now a-
mong our Minifters.
C Then I have told them the way
to peace.
AX But
the Friendly Debate] 3^5
N. C. But it is fuch a way I per-
ceive as would make them only hear-
ers of Sermons , not preachers , un-
lefs they conform in all things. It
would tye up their Tongues , and re-
ftrain them from the exercife of their
^SMiniftry : a thing they can never
confentunto.
C. The ancient filenced Minifters
before the wars, quietly fuflfered this
reftraint : and thought they might,
nay ought to ceafe preaching when
they were deprived.
A^. C. I cannot believe it.
C. It is fo notorious, that the
Brownifls objected this 'to them as a
Crime , that they did acquiefce in
the fufpenfion or deprivation of
the Biftiops. But they were fo far
from thinking it a fault ; that
they juftified it to be a Vertue.
For fo longy faid they , as the Bifhops
fufpend and deprive according^ to the
Laws of the land , we account of the
ji^ion herein , as of the aU of the.
Church ; which we may and ought to re-
verence and yield unto : if they do other-
wife;
34^ ^ Comimatm of
wife ; voe have liberty given tit hy the
Law to appeal from them. If it be
fdidy that the Church is not to be obeyed
A moft Grave and modeft ^^5^ '^ fufpends and de^
Confutation of the Errors of prtVeS US, for fuch CaufeS
the Sea called Brownifts or ^ . '' '' r -
Separatifts 5 agreed upon aS We tn OUr COnJctenceS
lSf^?S„'^jSLSS'S think to h infufficknt;
^^^^^■'rvt^^fi^l r^eanfwer : That it ties in
Mr.Rathband i644.part.2. them to depofe that may
ordain ; and they may (hut
that may open. And that as he may
with a good confcience evrecute a Mini-
ftry by the ordination and calling of the
Church, who is privy to himfelfof fome
unfitnefi ( // the Church will prefihim
to it :) fo may 'he who is privy to htmfelf
of no fault that deferves deprivation,
ceafe from the execution of his ^tini-
ftry ; when he is prejfed thereunto by the
Church. And indeed y if a guiltlefs
perfon put out of his charge by the
Churches ^Authority , may yet continue
in it, what proceedings can there be a-
gainfi guilty per foil s , who in their own
conceits are always guiltlefs, or will at
leaft pretend fo to he ; feeing they alfo
will be ready alway to obje£i againfl the
Churches
the Friendly Debate. q j.^
Churches Judgment, that they are cal-
led of God J and may not therefore give^
over the execution of their ^liniflry at
the will of man ?
N. C. It is notably obferved I muft
confcfs : I did not think they had beca
of this mind,
C. Your Minifters that are of any
learning know this well enough : but
cither are a new Brood fprung from
a mixture of feveral Sedls , or elfe
adl direcftly contrary to their Princi-
ples. Say which you pleafe, it is-
indifftrent to me : Whether do you
think their principles are pure deri-
ved from t\\Q anctent Non-conformift^,
or that they have only fome of their
Principles , mingled with others of
the old Separatifts ?
N. C. I am fure they cannot en-
dure the name of thofe Separa-
tifts.
C. Why do they countenance
their objedlions then againft their
forefathers ; and adl more like them
than the Non-conformifts ?
N.C.lt
34^ A Continuation of
N. C. It is forgetfulnefs I believe.
And yet, if they thought they might
keep filence , why do they fay fo oft.
Wo he to me if I preach not the Gofpel ?
I Cor* 9. 1 6. and, whether it he right
to hearken to you , more than to God,
judge ye, Ac5l. 4. 19, 20.
& That's a Queftion to be askt
them , rather than me. And their
Forefathers in Nonconformity ,
thought fuch places unskilfully al-
ledged againft them by the Brownifis,
and that they were nothing to the
purpofe : their Cafe (and fo yours)
being fo dififerent from the Apoftles.
'' Tot firft, They that inhibited the A-
ib. part. 2/' poftles(they are the words of thofe
pag. 42. <^Minifl:ers concerning the laftplace)
*^ were known and profeffcd enemies
*' to the Gofpel. S*tfco/;^/)',the Apoftles
'^ were charged not to teach in the
'^ name of Chrift, nor to publifh any
<^ part of the dodlrine of the Gofpel ;
*' which commandment might more
^^ hardly be yielded unto than this of
*^ of our Bifliops , who are not only
^^ content that the Gofpel fliouldbe
preached,
the Friendly Debate J '349
^^ preached, but are alfo Preachers of
"it themfclves. Laftly, the Apo-
'* files received not their calling and
" Authority from men, nor by the
^' hands of men, but immediate-
"ly from God himfelf, and
^'therefore might not be reftraincd
^'or depofcd by men: whereas wc,
'' though we exercife a fundlion
*^ whereof God is the Author, and
'^ are alfo called ofGod to it, yet aro
" we called and ordained by the hand
^^ and miniftry of men, and therefore
'^ may by men be alfo depofed, and
" reftrained from the exercife of our
" Miniftry.
N, c. They feem to fpeak with
great judgment.
C. Would we could but hear you
Difcourfc now thus wifely and folid-
ly : it would gain you great refpedt
and make every body in love with you,
iwhatfoever differences there were be-
tween us. But to hear men only
babble in Scripture language ; foig-
norantly as if they were mere Novi-
ces
2|o -^ Continuation of
ces in Chriftian Religion, and yet
fo confidently as if they were Apo«
files; it cannot but difguft all ratio-
nal perfons. Befides, would not any
man think that many of your Mini-
fters were carried more by Humour
than Piety, and regarded more theii
ownintereft, than that of Religion,
when he hears them crying out^necef/i-
ty it laid upon us ; and wo he to us, if
we preach not the Go^el ; and yet they
preach it only where there is no need,
and that with a greater breach of the
Laws, than if they preached in other
places ? Why do they not inftrucfl
the countrey people, (if theymuft
preach) where they fay the Cures
are worft ferved ? I doubt they fee
their condition would be Woful in-
deed, if they preach'd the Gofpel
there ; and therefore they fhould
have added two words to the Apoftles
fpeech and faid. Wo he to us, if we
preach not the Gojpelyin LONDON.
There is little to be got by preaching
it to the poor Countrey folk. Thofe
are barren places to fowthe feed in,
and
the Friendly Debate] -^^ i
and will bring forth fmall profit to
themfelves. And fo they would do
well to fay in plain Englifl? (and I
fhould think them honefter men if
they did ) Nccefjity u laid upon us :
to tell you the truth, Wc mufi preach
to get a living.
N.C. I have heard them fay, that
they have fearch't their hearts of-
ten
c So did the Army as I told you,
and were never the better for that.
A^. . And they find that they
mean uprightly : and that it doth not
condemn them of confulting with flejh
I and hloud^
(. . 1 find that they api/hly imitate
the Apoftles without their fpirit : and
run about with their vpords in their
mouths, when they leave the fenfe
behind. As if when they want the
things the Apoftles had, it were fome
::omfbrt to them that they can keep
their glorious Phirafe and Stile. Did
:hey never confulc think you one with
mother, what to do?
N. c. Yes without doubt.
C. And
2^2 A Comimation of
C. And what are they, I befeech
you? Are they turned on a fudden
into Spirits ? Have they left: the
Body, {ince they left: our Churches ; .
and become feparated Subftances , I
fince they became Separatifts> I
i\r. c. What do you mean ?
C Nay, what do you mean, thus
vainly to aflFedl the Apoftles phrafe,
who intended nothing elfe, when he
faid, ( I Gal. i6. ) that he did not
confult with flejh and blood afiier God
was pleafed to give him an immediate
commiflion to preach Chrift ? but
that he did not confer and deliberate
with any mortal men, like himfelfi
whether he fliould go about that work
or no. And truly in this fenfe I
doubt your Minifters confulted too
much with flefh and bloody when they
confidered whether they fliould con-
form to theOrders of theChurch or no.
They applied themfelvesto your hu-
mour,and thought whether you would
not be difpleafed to fee them do that
which they had raflily condemned or
flighted; and hear them preach up
that,
the trtrndly Debate. -i^-}
that, which they had defiroyed. Saint
/'W indeed ftood not upon this, and
would not hearken to what men faid :
but they 1 doubt had more of liis
words than of his mind ; and fate
liftning a great while to the voice of
fiefli and blood about this matter.
And I wifli they did not confuit too
much with it about other things : and
did not baulk difpleafing Dodlrines.
Othcrwife, why do they not teach
you in an honeft manner as the Old
Non-Conformifls did: that the Anci-
ent Church of God ufed a Form of
Prayer and Praifes , as every body
knowes "^ f And that our Saviour bad ^^^^^^ ^^^
his Difciples when they prayed to i"g»i[av rhey
fay, Our Father, tyc, which he would p'r"vers"'^'
never have done, if it had not been fngT4f
lawful for us in making our Prayers ^^npturcs,
to Cjrod, to ufe the very fame words : ons, foieim
And that it is an abfurd and frivolous fed in^^thdr
exception to fay, we never read that^-"''^'^'^*
the Apoftles did ufe a prefcript form
of Words ; For if this be fufficient
toexcufe us from doing what God
cxprefly commands or manifeftly
A a per-
jj:^ ^ Conummon of
permits, that we never read the Apo-
IHes or Saints did it ; then we muft
not, orneed not Baptife in the name
of the Father, Son and Holy Ghoft,
becaufe we never find they ufed thofe
words ; or that they Baptifed Infants,
or that they prayed, or rendred ac-
knowledgments to the Holy Ghoft,
And farther, why do they not teach
you that even upon extraordinary oc-
cafions, which require great and fpe>
cial fervency of Spirit, it is lawful!
to ufe a Form of Words , as our
Blefled Saviour did in his Agony
\And£othQ Matth. 26 42. 45. "^ ? And again, not
Sd^poin.only thofe Forms which we frame
gal^e^fiSn ^^^ felves, but which have been com-
&'2jodi P^^^^ "^y others ? as Solomon , they
obferved Jehofophat , Hezekiah, all
ufed the very words thatDavidhzd
done before. Nay, further yet, that
the people of God have ufed a fet
Form of Words in extraordinary oc-
cafions, which were appointed long
before thofe occafions fell out. Da-
niel £ov inftance ufed the words that
Solomon had commended in cafe of
Gapti-
the Friendly Debate] '^f^
Captivity^: and Ezra ufes that^P^^^
Form of Thankfgiving, which y,fy^. compared
fw/^^ had appointed, fay they, to be8V47.'
ufed after their return from Captivi-
ty^. "And more than this, that it^V^comp!
is lawful to ufe not onlythofe formsj^^|.^^^^55^^
which are in the Scripture, but fuch ^ E?ia. lu
as in the compiling and coUecfting
them, the Invention and fuch other
Gifts of men are ufed. There heiti^ a
liberty ( as the Separatifls themfelves
heretofore confefTed ) left in the
Church to do many things, that tend on-
ly to the Jetting forth Gods Ordinances.
As in preaching of the Word, and in
thofe Prayers, which they call con-
ceived Prayers \ the Wit, Memory,
judgment, and fuch other humane
gifts are lawfully and necefifarily u-
fed. Efpecially confidering, that
the peoples Underftanding and Me-
mory may be better helped by that
they are well acquainted withal, than
by the other. And tlien, if forms
thus devifed by men be found to be
lawful and profitable ; what fin can
it bc; for the Governors of the
A a z Church
35 6 A ConttHmtion of
Church to command that fuch Forms
beufed, or for us to ufe them (being
perfwaded of their lawfulnefs ) when
they are impofed ? Unlefs any body
will fay, that therefore it is unlaw-
ful for us to hear the Word, receive
the Sacraments, believe the Trinity
and aU other Articles of the Faith,
becaufe we are commanded by the
Magiftrate fo to do: Whereas in-
deed we ought the rather to do good
things that are agreeable to the
Word, when we know them to be
alfo commanded by the Chriftian
Magiftrate. Thefe are the very
words of your ancient Writers a-
pubuff'g^^"^ the Bro7r;;f/?j or Separatiftsc .
byM^-w. Let but your Minifters, notconfult-
parti.biic ing the Peoples fancies and defires,
ouro/f faithfully inculcate thefe Truths,
Sit^wr"ter ^^^ indeavour to ingraft them in their
Mr. Rich., minds: it will give a great Teftimony
Bernards r \ - c*- - it /> •
confutation Or their iSincerity, and 1 am lure it *
o/sLmw ^ will go a great way to make up our
wo1>d?Air fad Divifions. If they will not prefs
1608.W thefe things more than any thing elfe,
ior the prelent ; ( there being fuch
great
the Friendly Debate^, 357
great ncceffity of it ) we can give
no other reafon of their ftUnce, but
that they confult their ovfn inter eft ,
and are loth to leave their private
Meetings. And then confidering
their known and declared Principles,
1 fliall be forced to ufe a word of one
of their great Enemies ( though I
proteft I am fincerely their friend )
and fay they are of the moft ancient
Secflof the jiuto catacrites"^ t ^'^^ *-^* ^^Sfcu
Self- condemn d~\ the worft of allaionof
Se<5laries. ^^t" ^'
i\r. c, i have heard our Minifters
acknowledg all this ; and therefore
what needs thus many words i
C. Acknowledg it, man ? I would
not only have them fay fo when they
wereask't, (as if it were a forrowful
Confeflfion whifpered in the Ear ; )
butpublifhitaloudonall occafions;
that fo they may call back thofe flieep
that are gone aftray by their means.
Let every one of them, the next time
you meet, fpeak to the people in their
own language and fay, Corner let us
go up out of this Bahelyund confufiov^het
A a 3 us
35o A Cmtimatim oj
us return to Sion; though it he with
weeping and Supplication, there the
Lord dwel/eth, and there he ii truly wor-
/hipped. For whatfoever they may
acknowledge fometimc; the poor
people ( whom I pitty with all my
foul ) are ftrangely and paflionately
poflcfled with an opinion of the fin-
f ulnefs of being prefent at our Divine
Service. Many of them efteem one
of our Minifters, how well foever
qualified and diligent in his calling,
however blamelefs and exemplary in
his converfation ; no better than a
Corrupt man, a Time-ferver, a Forma^
lifty Popijhly affeBedy or at leaft, a
man blinded and deceived through
Ignorance. Nay, there are thofe
who call theni the Sons of Perdition
and make them men of no Confci-
ence. Some have queftioned whe-
ther they may marry a Conformift;
as if they were the people of a ftrange
God. To hear fuch a Minifter they
look upon as a great crime : at leaft
they think, if any other be to be
found, they muft go to the iton-coiz-
formifty.
the Friendly Debate, 5^9
formi({, though far the weaker man.
And as if they thought that to be god-
linefs in themfelves which they call
tyranny in other men ; there are fome
that impofc this upon their Children,
- never to hear the Common-Prayer :
and charge them, as I have heard,
upon their bleffing, to obey them in
Ithis Command. And when for very
Ihame they cannot but acknowledg
the gifts of fome Minifters; then
they limit the ufe of them only to the
information of mens Minds in the
letter of the Scripture and difcover-
ing grofs fins : but that they may
convert Souls, and work Faith and
Repentance in them, they very much
doubt, if not flatly deny. Nay, fo
far doth this conceit carry fome of
them , that they will fcarce give a
friendly countenance or falutation to
us : and they commonly call any
fmall company of their own party ;
the Churchy the people of God, the
Chriftians of fuch a town : as if we
had no portion in Chrift, but they
had got him wholly to themfelves.
A a 4 Thcfc
jtfo A Continuation of
Thefe Humours were obferved in the
old Separatifls ; and fince they abound
in you alfo, there is great need to
warn you to purgout theoldleven,
left it be tranfmitted from generation
to generation.
N. c/ But though a fet Form be
lawful , yet it is ufelefs ; becaufe
there is no ableMinifter that needs
one, and we ought not to provide
Crutches for thofe that are not able,
but rather remove them.
C. You would fain be Governors
I fee, not fubjeBs; and we fhould
have fine doings if you were in the
Throne : unlefs you were as wife and
honeftas fome of your Predeceflbrs
have been, who made this difcreet
anfvver to your Exception. There
may he good Minifters, who want the
gift of extemporary conceptions of Pray-
er ; and by confe que nee need a For m.¥ or
pr'aorfsS^-^"^^'^ fetting down the requifites
Licenfed by to a Bifliop (faith Mr. Geree"^ ) i Tim,
Mr. Cran-- rt^- - i - -
tordandde- 3. I lit, neither names nor intimates
Mrffuch? this for one of them. And where
capei An. j-j^g Sciipture fpeaks of Minifterial
girts
the Friendly Debate] 3 (5 1
gifts given to the edification of the
Church ; this gift of prayer is never
mentioned. * Tell nae then,if a man • i corinth.
have all that St. Fanl requires in a 'C^.^l'^'lj.
Bifliop, and yet wants this gift, is8-£phef:4.
healawfulMinifterofthe Gofpel or
not ? No doubt there are fuch, who
cannot exprefs themfelves without
confufion, or to the edification of
others without the help of a Form :
And experience tells us very excel-
lent men have conftantly tyed them-
felves to it. As Dr. Taylor a couragi-
ous witnefs to the Truth, ufcd the
Communion Book even in private
when he was in Prifon,and bequeathed
it as a Legacy to his Wife. He in-
ftancesalfo in Vr.Sihs andMr.i///-
der(ham who ufcd conftantly one
form of prayer before their Sermons.
And I find indeed the twolaft Ser-^
monsof the Dodlor fent abroad byjohnT.put
two eminent men wich that Prayer ^h^cwd:
before them '^. winandMr.
■Plulip Nye
and dedicated ro my Lord of Warwick. Bv which you may fee the A 0=
fembly were much out of die way, when tliey told \ ou, the Lord Jefus
flirniflies all thofe whom he calls to the Miniftry \yith this gift of Prayer.
Or elfethefe men were among the icile and unedifying Min'iftry who did
not put forth theniilelves to e'Jcercifc theif gift. Preface' to the Dirctflory.
N. c. I
3^2 A Contimatm of
iV. c 1 have many things to {^y
about Forms of Prayer, and yours in
particular; cfpecially about the im-
pofing them; if you have the pati- (
enee to hear me.
C. With all my heart : Onlycon-
tra<3: what you have to fay, becaufe
I have fome bufinefs ftayes for
me.
N, C. You have (cen a Book I per-
ceive which hinders feveral perfons,
I am told, from joyning with you ;
and they think itunanfwerable.
C, What Goliah fliould that be ?
N c. It is called. Common Prayer-
Book Devotions, Epifcopal Delufions,
Or the Second Death of the Service
Book,
c\ A terrible, Giant-like Title.
N. c.The preface too, which feems
to call your Minifters the Sons of Per-
dition, as you juft now noted.
C, O, i remember now ; it is faid
by his Friends to be writ by Mr. J.
Goodwin \ and printed in the wonder-
ful year 1666. when they thought to
fee us tumble down with a powder.
N^C.lt
the Friendly Debate. '5^3
N. C, It is full of his peculiar phra-
fes, and therefore ,
C I ap not concern'd at all who
was the Author : Let's confider
what he fayes. 1 took it ro be a piece
fo foul and fcurrilous; nay fo pro-
phaneandblafphemousagainft thofe
Devotions wherein fo many thou-
fand Souls offer up themfelves to
God ; that I never expedled to hear
you name it without abhorrence.
N. C. You pafs a very hard fen-
tence on it.
C. If you had read the two firft
leaves ferioufly, you would not fay
fo. Where, as if he imagined him-
fclFmaTemif 'Court: when he chanc't
to peep into a Church, he rudely calls
the Minifters and Peoples anfwering
one another, Bandying and toffing vf
Devotions too and again ( a witty
exprefllon you think, but borrowed
alas, as the reft of his Book, from
the Railers that were before him "^ ) *itisas old
Nay, his fancy ftept immediately nwnitionin
from thence into an Ale-houfe ; and bc'th^^mie,
he tells us that thefe Dezotions, much
refemr
154 "^ Continuation oj
^ refemhle the jolly Scene of a fet of Ale
inffired comp anions y chanting their
drunken Catches upon a Bench, Which
isfucha leud and impious Scoff at
the Devotions infpired by the Holy-
Ghoft ( which directed the Antient
-»» Exod.i.^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^ anfwer one another *'^)
ai.isRev.s'that, to fpeak in Mr. J, Goodwins
phrafe, he mufl: be the firft born of
prophanefs, who can deliberately
commend fuch writings.
N. C. But what do you fay to the
reft of the Book.
C. I fay he was in fuch a choller
when he writ it, that he minded not
what he faid. Do but read thofe
words in the fecond page, and tell
me your judgment. Ihe Liturgy «■
he?poft-^^^^^^9' ^ of things no more jit to be
^J^^^^"^^^^^ moulded together into the fame Body
is, when cf Evangelical Worfhip, than an Ox and
this would Ary 1 r i i i /
have been an Jjs to be yoked together, under the
fufficient. jr^^^^ yf^^ fervice in the fame Plough :
Canonicals and Apocryphals ; the liea-
uenlyfayingsofChrift and the fabulous
reports of Tobit ; the Pfalms of David,
and the Song 0/5. A mbrofe, Magnificat
and Quicunque volte A^ C I
the Friendly Debate [ 3 5 j'
N. C. 1 remember the words.
C And would not anybody think
that, according to this triumphant
writer. Magnificat (the fong of the
blefled Virgin ) was no more Divine
than the ftory of lohit and the Dog ?
elfe it fliould not have been fpt in op-
pofition to the Pfalms of David, like
an Afs againft an Ox , and as a thing
unmeet to accompany the Scriptures
in the fervice of God. Behold to
what folly he was betray'd by his heat
and paflion ! which made him like a
t*tging wave of the Sea foaming out his
onnfhame ; and moved him to befpat-;
ter all things in the Common-Pray-
er-book, even the holy Word of God
it felf.
N. C. This is very Arrange : me-
thinks he fliould have took more
care
C. Not at all. For he knew he
had a company of credulous follow-
ers, that would lick up his vomit,
and digeft any thing that he faid. It
were eafie 1 doubt not to teach many
of them to rail upon Magnificat, or
A^unc
'^66 A Continuation of
Nunc Dimhtisy as if they were but
certain Drunken Catches.
N C, You are too fevere.
C. 1 abhor Icverity where gentle-
nefs is the proper cure. But St. Paul
tells titus that unruly , and vain tal-
kers y and deceivers muft be rehuked
Jharplyy iTit. 15. And there needs no
other witnefs that there are fucha*
mong thctn(vphofe mouths muft beftopt)
than the Preface to the Book : a con-
fident Ignoramus ; who ftruts as if he
were fome great man , and makes a
ratling with his bigg words as if he
^had fome mighty matter to tell us ;
but in efFecft hath juft nothing, ex-
cept two or three grofs and palpable
falflioods , of which I will make him
afham'd if he have not a very brazen
forehead.
N, C. Do you think he would lye
for Chrift ?
G. I think he is a bold and vain
talker of things he underftands not :
what more , do you judge when you
have heard what I have to fay. If the
Book was writ by the perfon before
nam'd.
ihf Friendly Debate] ^^j
nam*d,as his Difciples affirm,then he
tells us one Notorious tale when he
faith , Tke Juthor ended his dayes in a
kind of Exile , for adhering to this
truth, defended in his Book, viz. Thaf
nothing ought to be impofed in the wor-
/hip of God. For it's well known by
all that underftand any thing of our
aflfairs, that Mr. J. Goodwin fuffered
no banilhment of any kind ; but was
difabled from his office ( though
there had been no Common-Prayer)
for intermedling fo much in* the late
Civil quarrels, and writing a Book
to juftifie the horrid murder of our
late Soveraign. But to let him pafs.
He asks us , you remember , Where
were more learned y more gold ly men in
the World , than Cartwright, Parker,
Reynolds , Greenham , Ames ? And
who knoweth not that thefe and many
! more of the fame heavenly fl amp, fuffe-
red extream Perfecution , Deprivati-
ons and Banifl^ments , rather than they
would touch with the Graven Image Sp
the work of the Cr^ftimen , that then
werci and now are n the fnares aud nets
upon
3d8 A Continuation of
upon Mifpeh and Tabor ?
iVi c. I remember them very well.
C. And is he not an abominable
reviler in reproaching us with Idola-
try , and the worfhipping of Graven
Images ?
N^C. But where are the Falf-
hoods ?
C* Is that none think you? But
thofe I now intend are , that he
makes thofe men againft a ftinted
form of worfliip who were for it ; and
to fuffer extream perfecution on
that account who fuffered none at
all, much lefs Banifhment. Other
untruths there are, but thefe are
fufficient to make him blufh , if he
have any of that vertuous colour
left.
N. C. Was not Cartwright of his
mind.
c. No. For he declared his mean-
ing was not to difallow of a prefcript
form of Prayer y and an uniform Order
in the Church. His quarrel was on-
ly with fome things in our Service-
Book. But yet he profefled he did
not
the Friendly Debate. ^^p
not oppofe the Ceremonies as Amply
unlawful , but only as inconvenient.
And therefore perfWaded the Preach-
ers rather to wear the Surplifs thaa
ceafe their Miniftry, and the people
to receive the Sacrament kneeling,
if they could not have it otherwayes :
becaufe though thatgefture was, as
he conceived , incommodious , yet
not (imply unlawful. All which
and a great deal more I will prove out
of his own works and other good Au-
thors, if it be contradit5led ; as alfo
that he loft his Profeflbrs place at
Cambridge upon other accounts, and
after all went to Warwick where he
was born , and dyed in the difcharge
of his Office as their Minifter. And
"iAr.Edwards I remember tells us that
he citing a paflage out of Mr. Cart-
wrights Comments on the Proverbs y
in a Sermon he preached a little be-
fore the wars to perfwade the people
to take heed of the WhiteDevil,\\z.the
fe par at ionupon greater pretence of Pa-
rity ; Mr* John Goodwin came to him
when he had done , and gave him
B b great
V-n o A ContinmHon of
great thanks for it. As for Mr. Far-
ker, he indeed went further and faid
the Ceremonies were unlawful either
tobeimpofed, orufed. But he was
far from being fo great a SchoUar as
this man fancies ; at leaft his learn-
ing was not well digefted, For ta-
king upon him to maintain that
Fopijh Idolatry is every whit as
bad as Pagan , he brings a paf-
fage out of Saint jfuftin to juftific
this, that a Heretick is worfe than a
Pagan, Which are the words of a-
nother man, whom St. Auftin in that
place confutes , and asks him by
what rule he concluded this, feeing
our Lord faid , if he hear not the
Church let him be to thee as an ilea-
then, not worfe than an Heathen. By
which you may fee how forward men
of this fpirlt are , to catch at any
thing that may feem to favour their
Opinions , and to make a fliew of
learning when they think it will
ferve then^ , though they flight and
undervalue it as a carnal weapon,
when it is in their Adverfaries hands.
And
the Friendly Debate^. 3 -7
And if I thought this man under-
flood him, 1 fhould imagine he had
learnt oiyii.Parker to magnifie thofe
of his own party beyond their de-
ferts : For he extols the refufing of
conformity as fuch a fingular piece
of fervice done to God, that he com-
pares fuch perfons as were therefore
deprived, to Davids Worthies, and
the three hundred men that followed
Gideon. Moft bfave flourilhes !
How can you chufe but yield your
felf captive to fuch champions', be-
lieving this Prefacer upon his word>
that thofe he Mufters up were in the
number of the Worthies, But he be*
lies Mr. Greenham too ; as I am able
to prove from good Teftimony , even
from himfelf But for brevities fake
I {hall only let you know that Dr. ^^
Burges aflures us , that on his own
knowledge and in his hearing, Mr,
Greenham denied to perfwade any
man againft the ufe of the Ceremo-
nies; and profefled he would be loth
to be put to the folution of this Ob ^
jecftion (n^s he called it) wear the Sur-
Bb 2 fltfs,
Wn2 A Continuation of
plifs , or preach not. Which is an
argument that though he did not
like them , yet he did not hold them j
unlawful , much lefs Idolatrous, as
this Ignorant Writer would per-
fwade us. 1 can prove alfo that he
abufes Dr. 'jimes , but that I make
haft to tell you , the moft palpable
forgery of all , is the putting Dr.
Keynolds into the Catalogue of his
^jkighty Men. 'And fince he pre-
tends to underftand Latine, I will
fend him for his more full convi(5lion
to an Author no lefs learned than
that excellent Dodlor, and a far
better Schollar than any of the reft ;
and that is Dr. Rich. Crackanthorp,
who tells the Archbifliop of Spalato
that the Doiflor was no Puritan ( as
Defenf. Ec« "^e Called him) but he himfelf a Calu-
AngUcan^ ^^^^^^or. For firff, he profefiTed that
&c.cap.69. he appeared unwillingly inthecaufe
An?*i62s*. at Hampton Court , and merely in o-
bedience to the Kings command. And
then , he fpake not one word there
againft the Hierarchy. Nay, he ac-
knowledged it to be confonant to the
word
I the Friendly Debate. 373
word of God, in his conference with
Hart, And in an Anfwer to Sanders
his Book, o£ tht Schffm of Erjj^lajul;
(which is in the Archbifhops Libra-
ry) he profefles that he approves of
the Book of Corjfe era ting and ordering
Bifhops , Priefts and Deacons, He
was a ftridl obferveralfo of all the
Orders of the Church and Llniverfi-
ty, both in publick and his own Col-
ledge : wearing thp Square Cap and
Surplifs, Kneeling at the Sacrament,
and he himfelf connmemorating their
Benefadlors at the times their Sta-
tutes appointed , and reading that
Chapter out of Ecclepafticas , which
is on fuch occafionsufed. In a let-
ter alfo of his to Archbifliop Ban-
croft (then in 'Dr. Crackanthorps hands)
he profefles himfelf conformable to
the Church of England willingly and
from hif heart , his Confcience ad-
monifliing him fo to be. And thus
he remained perfwaded to his laft
breath ; defiring to receive jibfoluti-
on according to the manner prefcrib-
edinour Liturgy, when he lay on
Bb 3 his
2 HA ^A ContimaHon of
his Death-Bed. Which he did from
Dr. Holland the Kings Profeflbr in
Oxford ; kifling his hand in token of
his Love &Joy,and within a few hours
after refigned up his Soul to God.
What think you now ; was Dr. Rey-
mlds one of thofe that abominated
our Worfhip, fufiFered extream per-
fecution , deprivation and hanijhment
too ? Or muft he that lately flood a-
mong the moji karned and godly men
in the world , be now blotted out,
and put in the black lift of Idolaters
md touchers with Graven Images i
What fay you ? Will you never fee
how thefe men deceive you ? Muft
the moft knowing men on our fide,
that report things to us from folid
teftimony , be thought lyars ; and
thefe impudent fots be believed on
their bare word ?
N. C. I am convinced he under^
flood nothing of thefe matters.
C, And yet he writes like a Tea-
cher ; though I believe he never flu-
died their own writers about thefe
poiiits. If he had ; the fijenced Mi-
pifter^
the tnenaiy Uebate . 375
nifters in thofe days would have
taught him a great part of what I
have faid» For they have told us ia
Print, ^ t\i^t^lofi of thofe ^/^^''^/*- * chriitian
fters appointed to fpeak for them at [^i;:'^^^^^,^;^
Hampton Court , were not of their call it) of
I r TIT • • /v I tiie lilenced
chujwgy or Nomination , or Judgment M,niftors,m
in the matters then in queilion ; but c'aji'foranS
of a clear contrary. For being intrea- J^^^j^^^'^pJJ; ^
ted at that time to difpute againfti6o6.*
thofe things asfimplyevilandfucha^
could not he yielded to without fin, they
profefled to them, they were not fo
perfwaded , and therefore could not
do fo. And being then requefted to let
his Majefty underftand, that fome of
their Brethren were further perfwad-
ed touching the unlawfulnefs of thofe
things than themfelves, they refufed
that alfo. Now I would fain know of
this Epiftler, whether he do not think
Dr. Reynolds was one of thofe Mofi ?
and whether he do not fee that fuch
men as he were afhamed the King
(houldknow, that any of theNon-
conformifts ( to whom they wiflit
well ) were fo weak as to call
Bb 4 the
3 7 6^ A Continuation of
the things in difference limply e-
N.C. 1 think you had beft dif-
mifs this man. What fay you to
the Arguments in the Book it
felf ?
C. Where fliall we find them?
There are ftrains of railing Rheto-
rick , ill applied fimilitudes (which
are the common way of deceiving)
abufed Scriptures ; loofe inconse-
quent reafonings ; in a word , no
arguments, that do not prove a great
deal too much.
J\r.G. Methinks there is fome-
thing in that, p. 4. That it is impoffi-
lie for a man to keep up his heart fo
much as in a toller able poflure of Devo-
tion y reverence and attention to fuch
Prayers, as having heenfrar/id hy men^
and thofe no more excellent than their
neighbours , are grovpn familiar to us,
und can he [aid by roat beforehand, vre
having heard them a thoufand times
already.
C. Nothing at all. For by whom
^re their prayers framed ? Are they
Angels
the Friendly Debate] 377
Angels or glorified Saints in the
Church Triumphant, that muft not
have the name of Men f Or dare they
fay the Spirit frames them ? And do
they not repeat for ever the fame
phrafes, only not put together al-
ways in the fame Order f How many
thoufand times have you heard them
beg, that they might prize Chrifi
more, and Ordiuances more, and Sab-
baths more , and a number of fuch
like things as thefe ? And befides all
this , what fay you to the Pfalms of
David? Could no man anciently
joyn devoutely in finging them , be-
caufe they were fo often repeated,
and fo well known that the Jews had
them by heart ?
MC. I cannot tell; But God him-
felf, he faith, judges it necejfary to con-
fiilt his glory ( I mean a Religious awe,
reverence and efleem to his counfels and
works from men) by concealing the one
and the other , till the time of their
bringing forth , that fo they may come
frefh and new to them. What fay you
to that ?
CI
S -78 -^ Continuation oj
a I fay he doth not write fenfe,
for iri?as if he had told us, that God
doth not reveal his Counfels , till he
reveal them.
J\f,Q But you may guefs at his
meaning; that God keeps fecret
what he intends to do, till he bring it
to pafs.
C. That's falfe. For he foretold
many things by the Prophets. But
were it altogether true ; it's nothing
to the purpofe. For though he fur-
prifes us fometimes with events
we never thought of, and could
not foiefee ; and will not al-
ways let us know what he intends to
do : yet he doth not judge it necefla-
ry to conceal his will , concerning
that which we are to do. No ; quite
contrary. He judges it neceflary to
declare it, and hath made no new De-
claration fince the Apoftles times.
And yet we may have a Religious re-
verence, fure, to his Counfels re-
vealed in his word, though they come
not frefli and new to us. If we can-
not; all that 1 have to fay is, that
then
the Friendly Debate. '^ng
then the fame Exception lyes a-
gainft therriy which you bring againft
the Common -Prayer, Nor are your
own Prayers fo Frelh and new as he
pretends ; but we know beforehand
the moft you have to fay ; only you
have fome new invented words and
phrafes which fometimes give usjuft
difguft.
N. C. Doth not our Saviour fay,
M^^. 13.52. that every Scrihe y every
Teacher , inJiruBed to the kingdom of
heaven, i.e, meetly qualified for the
work of the Miniftry of the Gofpel,
is like to a man that brings forth out of
his Treafures , things new and old ?
C. What of all that?
A^. C. Doubt lefs our Saviour fpoks
it upon this jiccount , as he tells
you.
C Doubtlefs he was full of fancy
(as well as the reft of his Brethren)
which laid hold of every thing with-
out any rcafon, if itwouldbutmiake
a fliew , and ferve to countenance
their wild opinions. Elfe he would
have eafily feen that our Lord fpcaks
of
ngo A Cmtinmion of
of his Apoftles and Evangelifts, who
were furnifh'd with abilities to pro-
pagate the Gofpel , both by their
knowledge in the Old Revelations in
the ancient Scriptures , and in the
new, which he made unto them.
iNT. C. But the Liturgy fmells rank
of the Popi/h ^SMafs-Book which alone
is fufficient to make it the ahharing of
their fouls that underfland any thing of
thefeverity of the Divine jealoujie ,8cc.
C. The old N. C were not afFrigh-
ted with fuch terrible Nothings as
thefe. But told our Englifh Dona-
iifis (the Brownifis) who objected
this : That it was more proper to fay the
Mafs-Book was added to our Common-
prayer than that our Common-Prayer
was taken out of the M^fs-Book, For
moft things in our Common-Prayer
were to be found in the Liturgies of
the Church , long before this Mafs-
Book, you talk of, was heard of in
the world. TheMafs was patched
up by degrees and added to the Li-
turgies or the Church; now one
peice*
the Friendly Debate^, '5 8 1
peicc , then another. And if a true
man may challenge his goods where-
foever he finds them , which the thief
hath drawn into his Den ; then the
Church of God may lawfully lay
claim to thofe holy things which the
Church of Rome hath uTurped , and
fnatch them away from among the
trafli wherewith they are mingled. A
great deal more to the fame purpofe
you may find in Mr. John B^fl'^^which ^
I cannot now ftand to tell you. The Lif iyS.^°
fum is this; "That Popery is ^tctibfj^'^l^'
*' or Leprofie that cleaves to the M'^- v^
*' Church. It moftly ftands in erro- ' ^^^'^*
" neous y faulty , grofs and abomi-
" nable fuperftrudtures upon the
^^ true Foundation , whereby they
*'poyfon, or overthrow the founda-
" tion it felf But take away the
" fuperftrudlures and the foundati-
'^'on remains : remove the leprofie
'^ and the man is found.
N". c. You talk of Liturgies in the
ancient Church : we read of none in
the Apoftles time.
C True
n22 A Continuation of
C. True : But as the fame perfon
2*^^*Pf^^- ingenioufly confcfles, "^"^ they might
be, though we read nothing of them.
For the Apoftles have not fet down
a Catalogue of all and every particu-
lar Order that was in the Church.
However, afetformof Pmyer to be
ufedin publick meetings is not un-
lawful, becaufe it is of the number
of things which God hath not deter-
mined in his Word, '^c, jind as to
call that Holy which God hath not com-
mand ed is Super flit ions y fo it is errone-
ous to condemn that as unholy or pro-
phane which God allows, or is confonant
to his Wordy though not precifely com-
manded-
N, C. It is a common opinion that
Liturgy is a novel Invention in the
dayes of blindnefs and lazinefs, in fa-
vour of Idle and debauched Priefts.
C. You are all as learned as the
Prefaces to your Book. But you
might be more truly learned if you
would read the Author now mentioned;
who tells you that though it's hard to
determine the precife antiquity of
ftinted
the Friendly Debate'. '383
ftinted Liturgies ; yet that they have
becninufe in the Chriftian Church
for the fpace of 1400. years if not
above, no man can deny. And that
they could not be invented for fuch
ends as you imagine , becaufe the
chief promoters of ftinted Liturgies were.
renowned for their conftant and unwed-
ried preaching every day in the week,
and fometimes twice ^. The New*ib.'pag.it.
EnglandMinifters would have taught
you more ; for all they dare fay a-
gainft the Antiquity of Liturgies is,
that/or about an hundred years there
were none a : Then your Dialofue-wa- , ^
1111 1 "^ 1 ^ ^^^ ^
ker h tells you they came in; but^epiyand
hath the impudence to add, that Mi- bout^lp^-
nifters then grew idle and weary of b''"^P^s-2-
taking pains. Hughes,
AT. C. Iti^ afadthingtherejhouldhe
fuch endlef^dij^utes : Surely if they that
compofed the Common- Fr ay er had
dreamt that it would create fo many
divijjons, diflraBions, tmnults, confu-
fions, &c. they would never have found
either heart or hand to lift up toward
the promoting of it. p^g.S,
C.An
284 -^ Continuation of
r. An admirable Argument ! As
if he had faid , The Pen-men of Holy
Scripture would never have writ as
they have done ; if they had but fore-
feen what ill ufe would be made of
their words, what Wranglings and
Difputes they would raife, and how
they would be wrefted and tortured
to a fenfe which they never thought
of. Mull: the poflibility of an incon-
venience that may grow , hinder us
from doing good things ?
M^C. No. But there is no good
comes of this. For they who like this
kind cfWorfhip are generally Ignorant ^
Prophane, Superfiitioas, Jime-ferverSy
Fearful, Unbelievers y Haters of thofe
that are good, Drunkards, j{dulte'
rers, &c.
C. I know he faith fo : and repeats
it a little after;, th^t they aregenlrally
if not uuiverfally perfons much efiranged
from the life of God, ajfeBionate lovers
cfthis prefent World* But we know
withal that there is a vafl: number of
Ignorant revilers, railers, lyars, falfe-
accufers, covenant Breakers, proud
cenfu-
the Friendly Dehitte. -^^j
Cenfurers of their Brethren, uncha-
ritable, contentious, implacablcj,
felf-conceited , greedy fcrapers of
wealth, b^c. Who love the other
kind of IVorJhipy and like no Prayer^
but thofe of their own conceiving.
Doth not this Argument w/tr /Irongly
(as his phrafe is) againft fuch a
worfliip ; artd u U not a great prefump-
tion of the carnality of it, that it com*
ports vpith the humours, fancies and
Confciences of men of fuch an evil Spi-
rit^ Ifyou like not fuchReafonings
againft the prayers of your invention j
let them alone when you difpute
againft ours. But 1 itiuft tell you
however that this man, let him be
who he will, hath committed a moft
hainous fin, and is prefumptuoufly
uncharitable in judging the Generali-
ty, tf not all, of us to be ungodly.
We know the contrary, and are af-
fured that there are more than one of a
City, or two of a Tribe (as he loves to
fpeak) that are truly confcientious,
and ferve God in this way which he
fo fcorns, with much fktisfac5iion
C c and
:585 A Continumn of
and joy of heart. And all fober men
I think, will look upon it as an intol-
lerable piece of Pride in him to fay>
thatit if hardly credible any man fear*
ing God ( if there be any fuch among
us ) jhould partake at any time in thif
worjhip with any great contentment.
This is to meafure other mens Corn
by your own Bufliel. A piece of the
old leven of the Scribes and Fharifees,
or if you will, the Separatifis here in
England before he was born : to whom
Mr. Gyjford anfwcred then as we do
M^!^reen.° novp"^ / It cannot be denyed but that
groans and tears f who read the Prayer
upon the Booky or have it oiweufe to
fayy by heart,
N,c. But if your prayer Book
were as free from blemifli as Abfolom^
nay, if it had been compofed ^ a
General Council oiEleB Angels ; the
impofwg of it would be imperious Blaf-
phemy, and the ufe of it a^ impofed?
hafe and wretched Idolatry,
C, Go and find fome child to
fright with your blufteringLanguage.
i\z;c.it
the Friendly Debate, jg-y
iV". C. It is more than noife. For
he tells you (pd^* ii.) that it if as
well or 04 much the incommunicable pri-
TJtledge or prerogative of God to pre-
fer ihe, appoint and command hif onn
vporjhipy a$ it is to be worjhipped, ^nd
therefore whofoever /hall authoritatively
under any penalties command any Form,
Model, Method or Manner of Divine
Worjhip makes himfelfGod ; and vphofo-
everfubmitstofuchWor/hipuan Idola-
ter, hecdufe he gives that honour to a
creature tvhich is due to God alone.
What have you to fay againft this
Argument ?
c. I fay that as no body doubts but
God, who is above all, hath a right
to appoint his ojvn Worjhip, fo it is
as certain that he hath not appointed
any model of Worjhip or form of words
to be ufed in Prayer and none clfe*
Nor hath he told us that he will n^Dt:
bewor/hippedbyafet Fonii, or that
we muft vary our words and phrafcs, ;
and conceal what we have to fay to him
till we bring it forth. And therefore I
fay he hath left it to ourfober and
C c Z Reli-
388 A Continuation of
Religious Reafon to determine after
what manner thatworfliip which he
requires may be beft performed. And
if not to every mans reafon (which
would be abfurd ) then thofe who
govern the reft are toconfider how
chriftian Societies when they meet
together may moft folemnly pray in
the name of our Lord Jefus for fuch
things as arc according to Gods will ;
and give thanks alfo to God the Fa-
ther thorough him. And confe-
quently it is no incommunicable pre-
rogative to appoint a Form or Order
of Divine Worlhip, fince God hath
not appointed one himfelf, and yet
muft not be worfliipped diforderly.
And if it maybe appointed, then it
may be appointed under penalties,
to keep men from wanton contempt
of the publick Reafon. Mr. J. G.
you remember compofed a hymn to
be fung on a day of Thanksgiving in
his Congregation. This was a form,
and authoritatively impofedjelfe every
one there might have brought forth
his hymn and put all into confufion:
which
thf Friendly Debate] 389.
which if they had done they might
juftly have been cenfured by him,if he
had had any power. Now I would fain
know why the Magiftrate may not
prefcribe the Song of 55t. Amhrofe or
any other godly Hymn to be fung by
all Congregations committed to his
charge; as well as one Minifter pre-
fcribe an hymn to his particular Con-
gregation? and why the Magiftrate
may not ufe all his power and punifli
as he fees caufe ; as well as fuch a
Minifter ufe all his (who could only
reprove) in cafe of contempt? I
would know alfo how this Author
could excufe the whole Ghriftian
World from being Idolaters, you
Presbyterians not excepted, if his
Docflrine be true. For the Parlia-
ment prefcribed the DireBory, and
that not without penalties, as a mo-
del or manner of Divine Worfhip : and
fo they ufurped the place of God ; and
youv^ho fubmittcdto their orders, v
Worfljipped the creature and .faid con- *~
ftruc5lively and in effe^il ( if he reafo.i)
right ) to the Parliament, thou art
C c 5 my
3 p o A Comimation of
my God, or [ acknowledg and own thee
for my God,
JSf.C. I remember the words,
pag. 12.
c. And what would have become
of you, if after this dreadful fentence,
he had not in an extraordinary fit
of good nature revoked it; and al-
lowed the ufe of a prefcribed form ?
For though he fay that conceived pray-
er, for the nature and kind of it, is that
very w or/hip which God Commands,
Yet, as he doth not prove it, fo he
affirms it not confidently, without
thi$ reftrid:ion ; atleafito thofethat
are, or hy the ufe of means may he, ca-
pable of it, p. -^o. Very kindly faid,
I perceive this gift then of conceiving
prayer is but natural, and no divine
infpiration : and where nature is not
ready in its conceptions, it may be
relieved by the help of Art : and
fome may be uncapable of it, whatfo-
ever means they ufe to acquire this
gift. And confequently conceived
prayer is not the Worfhip which for
the nature and kind of it, God com-
mands ;
the friendly Debate: 3p'l
mands ; becaufe he doth not com-
mand impoflible things : but another
manner of Worfhip byaconftant
form may be ufed ; nay impofed too
when a Magiftrate judges it needful,
and (cQS that thofe who are moft zea-
lous for conceived Prayers alone,
have generally leaft abilities to con-
ceive aright. In fliort he grants, p, f 5*.
th?itfiinted forms of Prayer in them-
felves, unto fome men y and under fame
circumfiances may be lawful: He might
as well have faid needful for I fuppofe
he thought them lawful, in cafe men
could not conceive prayers them-
felves, as they ought. And then why
may not the circumftances be fuch
that they may be needful toalh^ at
leaft at fome times, when men of
the readieft inventions are indifpo-
fed? And mark I befcech you how
timoroufly he begins to fpeak after
all his vapouring, when he tells us
We fl?all hardly find in the Script urCf
e^ecially in the New Tefiament, ths.
fame Prayer ufed by the fame perfon the.
fecond time, \t feems we may find it,
G c 4 - if
3?2 "^A Continuation of
if we will but take the pains. But tg
fave us a labour he prefently remem-
bers, that Chrilt prayed the fame
words a fecond and third time : which
he excufes thus ; by the fame words
we are to underftand the fame in
fenfe, matter and import, but not in
found, letters orfyllables. How he
came to know this I cannot tell: for
my pait 1 believe our Saviour was not
concerned about new words when he
had the fame thing to fay again. But
the like peremptory conclufion he
makes concerning all the exhortati-
ons to prayer delivered by Chrift or
hiS Apoftles : which he faith were in-
tended only of that kind of prayer
which the Saints were to conceive
and indite ly the help of the Spirit ^
which they who believed did receive.
Tocountenance this he cites a great
many Scriptures, and tells us that
thofe places ( at leaft the mioft of
them) cannot be underftood of the
Miraculous gifts of the Holy Ghofl,
tS'c, which is fonotroriouflyfalfe that
I wonder hp had the confidence to^
aflSrni
the Friendly Debate^. 3 9 j
affirm it. The firfi is Joh, 7. 59. the
fiext, AB. 5*. 32. which no man I think
before him ever undcrftood othcrwife
than of the extraordinary gifts be-
ftow'd on the day of Pcntecott. And
of fuch gifts the Apoftle fpeaks in the
S.Rom.f, zCor. ^. ^. Gal.-^.i.
JLphef. I. 13. In fliort, there is but
one place of all that hemuftersup,
that can with any colour be drawn to
ferve his purpofe, ^7;s. Rom.% X4>i5''
And yet to me there is no Senfe fo
plain of thofe words as this ; that the
gifts of the Holy Ghoft being a great
Evidence of the truth of Clwiftianity,
all they that lived accordingly, might
be aflured of the love of God ; and
whether they were J^wes or Gentiles
might call God Father, though they
obferved not the Law oiMofes, But
1 moft marvel that he fhould alledg
that place in i Joh.i.ij, which the
Brownijfs, 1 remember, were wont to
cite ( and with more Ihew of reafon )
to prove that every Saint had the Ho-
ly Spirit to open to them, and lead
them into every truth. To vyhich if
you
^p A A Cominmion of
you pleafe you fliall hear what the
Old NoHconformift replyed.
N. c. I had rather hear what you
can reply to the Scriptures which he
brings to prove, that therefore God
abomindtes a vporjhip or a form and man-
per ofWorJkipf hecaufe he hath not com-
manded it. Though the Worfhip
were in its own nature abominable,
yet he takes no notice of that ; but
only of its not being commanded, which
as align the provocation lyes there.
c. 1 remember the places very
well ; and remember withal that this
is a miferable old argument which
hath been anfwercd many a time be-
fore he fet pen to Paper. And it hath
been proved with plain Evidence, that
the meaning of the words , Tvhich I
commanded not, is as much as, which
I forbad : as he had exprefly their of-
fering their children to Molock, of
which he fpeaks in that 7. Jer. 3 i. So
when it's faid that they offer'd ftrange
fire vphich the Lord commanded not.
Lev, 10. I. all conclude that lefs is .
faid
I
the Friendly Debcit?. 39^
/aid and more undcrftood, viz. that
the Lord had forbidden it. Mr. Ain-
[worth himfclt cannot deny it, who
yet makes the fame ufc of this phrafe
fometimes that this Author doth.
And indeed a man muft flatly contra-
dict all reafon that oppofes this. For
when he fpeaks of thofe that fliould
worfhip other Gods, Sun and Moon
which he had not commanded, Deut.
17. 3. it is fencclefs to interpret it o-
thcrwife than this ; v^hich he had for-
hiddett,¥oi if this was the reafon why a
man finned in worlhipping the Moon,
that he did it without Gods leave or
Cpmmand ; it would fuppofe that
God might have commanded them
to worfhip it and ferve other Gods :
which no body imagins. All thofe
places therefore, which he al ledges to
prove tliat Gods not commanding a
thing is enough to make it unlawful,
amount to no more but this ; that his
forbidding a thing makes it unlaw-
Iful.
N. C. But we ought to interpret
the Scripture according to the very
form
^g6 A Continuation of
form of the words ; and fo, that is
unlawful which is not commanded.
c, Juft now you were only for the
fcnfeand the matter, not the words
and fylkbles. But to let that pafs ;
I have fhown you this is a falhion of
Speech in the Qld Tefiament for a
thing forbidden. And befides, the
abfurdity of your Interpretation is fo
great, tiat the wifer fort of that party
who firft ufed this argument were
forced afterward to forfake it: as I
can clearly demonftrate out of Mr.
Cartvpright, And indeed where hath
the Lord commanded a Minifter to
read a Text and glofs upon it ; or the
Congregation tofing the Ffalms of
David in Metre ? Mr. Smith can ne-
ver be anfwered by thefe Difputers,
who faid that the Holy Scriptures
were not to be retained as helps be-
fore the eyes in time of worfliip : and
that it was unlawful to look upon a
Book in finging Pfalms. Nor could
they have told what to fay to that
poor Gentleman in Warwick- fhire, who
was fo deeply poffefled with thefe
two
the Friendly Debate] '39 y
two fancies, that we mufl not commu-
fticatc withfinners : nor ufe any humane
inventions in Gods Service ; that to *
avoid the firft he fliut up himfelf and
children in his houfe, having no meat
but what was put in at the window j
nor fuflfering any body to come r\ear
them when they all layfick in great
mifery : and to avoid the laft, he cut
out the Contents and the Titles of every
thing in the Bible, leaving nothing
but the lext it felf ^. *^^^ Bali
N. c. Doth not God fay thou (halt Anfw. to
• / » 1 / I- • -/r y- Can. p. 138.
neither add thereto nor dimtnifh from
it? Peut. 12. 32.
i C What? not add Contents, or
Notes for the better underftanding df
the Bible?
N. c. Nothing to the worfliip of
God, of which hi« own Word i^ to
De the only rule* and n0t the leaft
ritle to be devifed of our own.
C, Why do you only fay to his
Vorjhip? You learnt this of Mr. i/i^-
vportb the old Separatift, who moft
injuftly reflrains thofe worcJ$ to
3ad*s Service ; ^yheieas Mofe/ fpt^s
of .
^pg A Contimmm of
of every thing he had received from
him, whether they were Statutes or
Judgments as you may fee, v.x. In
one word, of the whole Law, which
was to diredl them not only in Reli-
* D?uV?A.g^^"^ but civil Affairs *. And there-
where 'he fore this place is as efJedlual to prove
cStation that there may be no Law made to de-
hisLawsr termine our civil controverfies, as
j:j*3uiring ^[jjj^ there may be none made to order
them not to t««Tn to
addordi- Gods Wormip and Service. And
Sy ofthoii then what hinders but thofe men may
obtain their defires who told you late-
ly, it will never be well till the Laws
of the Lord Jefus be received alone ?
That all ourCounfellors and Pleaders
bring their Books of Common Law
and beftow them as the Students of
Curious Arts did theirs in the Apo-
ftles time i That the Godly fend out
their writs to fuperfede all proceed-
ings in Weflminfier-Hall and judg all
things in their Churches ?
lif. c. The State will never fuffer.
that Folly.
C. Nor this foolifli interpretatioi
of Scripture, I hope. The Jews
ai
the Friendly Debate] jpjj
am fure ( from whom Mr. Ainfrv&rth
borrows fo many ufcful cxpofitions)
never thought that no particular
Laws might be made agreeable to the
General , and for the prefervation
and better execution of them. For
the Elders made many ; and impofed
thofe commandments on the people
as a hedge and fecurity to the Divine
Laws; and in this they did well. All
the fault was that in prucefs of time
they grew too numerous, and they
equalled the decrees of the Elders
with the very word of God , nay
fometimes made the Law void by
them.
N. C. Since you fay you are in
haft: to be gone, Vie trouble you no
farther about this Book : though
there are many things behind that
deferve confideration.
C. I am not of that mind. He
hath but raked to gather all the frivo-
lous exceptions , with the filthy
feoffs and jeers which were anfwcred
in the days of our Forefathers : and
arc as ealie to confute as to tell to
Twenty,
[^00 A Contimation of
Twenty, But let me tell you thi^
before we part with him, that Mr J.
Goodwin was not wont to allow rea-
fons drawn from the Jewijh Law
(though all the lofty Rheti)rick in
this Book be drawn from it) becaufe
the ftate of things now is not like
wh«t was then. He tells us for in-
ftance in his Hagiomafiix , that
though blafphemers, feducers to Ido-
latry , and falfe Prophets were put
to death by that Law, yet we have
not the fame reafon to do fo now ;
becaufe they might immediately con-
fult with God in all difficult cafes
that hapned about matters of Reli-
gion ; but we have no fuch infallible
dire(5lions in all cafes and cannot
have difputes fo ended. If this Rea-
foning be good, then this is I am fure.
God diredled every thing about their
Sacrifices in the Jewijh Law, and
therefore no Rite or Ceremony was
to be added by them , becaufe if any
more were needful they might ftill
repair to him : But he hath not done
fo under the Gof^el , nor do we know
to
the Friendly Debate] ^o i
to what Prophet or Oracle to go for
diredlion in every thing ; and there-
fore we muft repair to Religious Pru-
dence and difcretion.
iY. c. I marvel he fhould fpeak
with fo much confidence and tri-
umph in a matter that is fo difput-
able.
c. It was the manner and the cu-
ftom of the man ( if Mr. J. G. were
the Author ) as you may be fatisfied
if you look into his jintkav alert fme^
Where he tells you , Ihcre is no occa-
sion ^ for a man to make a ft and in mat'*^^„ ^,
ter of confcience , whether he Jhould in-
gage on the Parliaments fide or no: no-
thing doubtful in the cafe ; nothing to
detain ones confcience in fufpenfe; the.
righteoufnefs of the Caufe being as clear
as the light , or as the Sun at noon day^
And to grace the bufinefs with Scrip-
ture language, he tells you; the^
Caufe is like to the Larv of God itfelf
in thefe excellent qualifications of it ;
that it is Holyy juft and good,
i\r. c. I never knew any man fpeafc
with fuch aflurance in a thipg which
Dd dl
^ij o 2 A Continuation of
all wife men thought at leaft doubt-
ful.
C- Well. I put you in mind of it
then, that you may not either won-
der or be ftaggered when you hear
men fpeak with fuch aflurance. For
he ufes as big and confident words in
another cafe , in which I am fure you
are as confident of the contrary, viz.
about the putting our Late Soverdign
to death. Ihis cortclufion, faith he,
fldnds Uke a great mountain immove-
able ; that thejuftice and honour of the
^hefmce of fentence again ft the late King are no
t^T^'''' rvay impairable by this fuppofition, that
^^^'^^^V' this prefent Parliament is not a com-
i^)Vo.^'^\.pleatl\-leqal Parliament, "^ And in
gain p.95. another place ; Doubtle(? never was
cpntrover^* there an) perfon under heaven fentenced
l^t'J^^^.^cir.'^ith death upon more equitable or
never Was m ^ ^i- 1 ^
^ny age juft grounds, in refpeB of guilt and de-
whoi? merit (a). Thus he boafts alfo, that
Sence^ hc hath brought this Conclufion,
more juft, 2f^^p fijQYQ j^^^ a neceffity lying on the
<'^^^^vh^p ^^rmy to feclude many Members, into
Mi^htover^as clcar and perfedt a light as any the
iigh?|,,3oSun fliineth at noon-day (b).
M a At
the Friendly Debate. '403
N. C' At midnight he fliould have
faid.
c. No ; let him fay at noon-day.
They are but words of courfe ; every
thing , though never fo dark, is to
him as clear as the noon-day. And
therefore no wonder it be fo clear to
him that we are all Idolaters ; and
that the King in impofing the Com-
mon-Prayer hath equalled himfelf un-
to Gody and obtruded himfelf a^ God,
:o be worfhipped by us as Nebuchad-
ie:zzars Golden Image was. For he
:old us you know in exprefs words,
that whofoever jhall authoritatively and
wder a penalty command any model ,
yiethod, or manner of Divine rporfhip
be obferved by men, makes himfelf
jody&cc. you may read it at large, p.
£1,12. For it is as clear as the
Sun.
A" C. That fuch Books ought to
)e burnt.
C Imuftadd that you are all guil-
y of too much confidence, and talk
LS if you were intallible in your con-
ufions. When you fee therefore
Dd z the
404 -^ Continuation of
the folly of it in another,mend it in
your felves. • And do not talk here-
after as if all Godly men had ever
been oi your mind : No man of a
tender Confcience but held it unlaw-
ful to prefcribe any thing in Gods
worlhip. Every Body knows Cart'
vr right y Reynolds y Greenham were of (J
this opinion as the Prefacer boldly
told you; and it is a wonder he didJR
not add Di.Sibhs. For fo fome of your
party took care the world fhould be-
lieve ; and chofe rather to corrupt
his writings , than have it thought he
was of another Perfwafion.
i\r. C. I fliall never believe it.
C, You may chufe : But I fliall
prove that this good mans writings
were abufed prefently after his death
in this very point. For in his Book
called the Souls Confli5i , he gave this
direction among others to guide a,y/
Soul in doubtful Cafes. Thehavrs }\^
under which ire lize are particular de-^^^
terminations of the Law of God) and i
therefore ought to he a rule tons fo far
a^ they reach, though it he too narrow)^.
^' Pi:
d
the Friendly Debate] 405
a Rule to he good, only fo far as mans
haw guides unto ; yet haw being the
joynt Reafon and confent of many men
""or publick Goody hath an ufe for the
raiding of our jfdhons that are under
he fame. Where it dajhes not agaiift
lods law ; what u agreeable to haw is
igreeable to Confcience. Thus the
iule flood when the Book firft came
)ut ^. But in a very fhort time af- ; ^^'^^Edi.
er , when he was newly laid in his P^g- 3«4-
;rave , the nrft words were changed
n thefe; The Laws under which we
'■ve are particular determinations of the.
.aw of God in fame duties of the Se-
ond Table. In which they made two
:ftrii5tions of that which he had faid
1 General words ; Firft, they re-
:ram'd the Rule to the Second Table,
id not to all things neither, buton-
'fome duties. And then they add a
hole Sentence, hyvis.y of Example,
hich was not in the firft Edition:
hich I make no doubt was done on
irpofe, left any man who read the
ook fliould think it was the Dolors
'inion , that we fliould conform to
Dd X th^
AQ 6 A Continmtm oj
the Orders of our Governours about
the worfliip of God , where the Law
of God hath determined nothing in
particular, and their Laws do not
crofs his. But what is there done
by the Jefuites worfe than this ? what
greater injury to the dead than thus
to play tricks with their Books, and
change their words at your plea-
fure i
N.C, It is very ftrnnge.
G I have fome thing more to tell
you. As they have added here , fo
they have taken away in another
place juft before it. He isAnfwcr-
ing I told you this Queftion, what
courfe muft we take for guidance of
our lives in particular atftions wherq
in Doubts may arife, what is moft
greeable to Gods will ? And one Ad-
vice is this; vpe muft look to ourplaa
wherein God hath fet us. If ire be i\
ftihjeBion to others, their ^Authority in
doubtful things ought tofrvay with m. ^
dangerous Rule fome men thought;
and therefore in the next Edition^
they left out thofe words in doubtfti
things,
J
the Friendly Debate] 407
things. And alfo blotted out this
whole fentence which follows ; It is
certain we ought to obey {viz. in doubt-
ful things of which he is fpeaking)
and if the things wherein we are to ohey
he uncertain to U9 ; we ought to leave
that which is uncertain , and ftick to
that which is certain : In this cafe we
mufl obey thofe that are Gods under
God.
N.C. Are you fure of this?
C As fure as that I fee you :
though I muft tell you there was a
neat device to hide this fraud ; for
they reprinted the Book fpeedily
with the very fame Title page that
wasT^efore and without giving notice,
that it was ^ifecond Edition : And by
leaving out thofe lines ; and adding
an example , as I told you ; to illu-
flrrate the rule as they had reftrain'd
it, they made the pages exacflly
even as they were at the firft. "^ Af- * Thereare
terward the Book was divided into ^^o Editi-.
Chapters : and in all Editions fince one V Ul
own , ano=
ther of fome bodies elfe ', butfo ordered that they feem the fame. This
J add kit I Hiould no; be underftoo d by all.
Dd 4 you
'408 A Continuation of
you will find thefe Rules (Chapt. 17.)
with thefe alterations.
M C, By his own appointment, it
is like.
C. Why did they not tell us fo ?
N. C 1 know not.
C rie tell you then : They were
loth to tell a plain lyeiFor the Do5ior
dyed within three days after he had
writ his Preface to the firft Impreffi-
on ; and therefore it's moft likely
made no Alterations. That Preface
was dated July the firft 163 j. and he
dyed July the fourth. So I gather
from thofe who put out his two laft
Sermons preached Junezi. and 28.
and he dyed, fay they, the Lords day
following. Immediately after which
came out a tiew impYejJton of the fame
year 1^35'. but not called afecond
Edition : which they would have us
believe was not till 1636. A meer
cheat as I confidently affirm , having
feen and compared all.
i\r. C. I fee now you are of an im-
pofing fpirit : and have taken a great
deal of pains to flicw it.
a What
th Friendly Debate] 409
C. What.'* Am I for impofing on
men thofe words they never faid ?
N,C, Be not fo perverfe. AIJ the Re-
formed Churches are againft impo-
fing of SetForms^as I have been told.
C. As perverfe as I am. Tie follow
you for once. So you have been told,
I believe , that they are againft all
Set Forms though not impofed : I am
fure I have.
N. C. No. I remember in the
beginning of the late Wars the Scot-
tip Formes of Prayer were printed.
C. And fo were the French, and
thofe of G^/7^x'^, and Guernfea , and
the Dutch , to name no more ; all
tranflated into Ertgli/h. Therefore
pray fatisfie fome of your Ignorant
but yet confident Friends in this
matter. As for that of Impofing;
what think you of thefe words of Mr.
Calvin in his letter to the Protecflor,
OSoh. 22. I5'48? ^s for Forms of
prayer and of Rites Fcclepaflical, I do
greatly approve that .there he a certain
one extant , from vchich it (hall not he
lawful for the Minifiers in theirfandlion
to
]^\o A Contimatm of
to depart y Set. For which he there
gives fotirhfccafons. And whatfoever
is pretended to the contrary, the Re-
formed Churches do follow this
Counfel , and tye men to a Form in
the publick duties of Gods worfhip,
as I can evidently fliew. But now
let me only obferve that heretofore
your Minifters thought it no light
Argument againft the Separatifis,
that all Reformed Churches acknow-
ledged the Church of England as their
lifter : and confequently did not
think her wicked for impofing Forms
of Prayer. So you m.ay read in the
Book I told you of before, publifhed
by Mr. Rathhand, p. 6. though the
truth is thofe Miniilers have taken
B^owaifcfthat Argument out of a Book of Mr.
f^^^^^ Bernards "^ ; who fpeaks difcreetly
^6o8.pag. when he faith, That though we do not
^'^ ' make this our only or chief defence,
wherehy wefeek to approve our [elves to
God or the confciences of his people ;yet
it is a thing that gives fome reputation
to us. For even Saint Paul who re-
ceived not his calling either from or hy
men^
the Friendly Debate. 4 1 1
men, alledges for the credit of his Mi-
niftry that three chief Jpoflles approved
him and gave him the right hand offel-
lowjhip. And which is more, hefeeks
to win commendation and credit even
to thofe Orders which he hy his Jpofio-
licall Authority might have eflahlifh-
ed^ hy the example and judgement ^/he^St^ i
other Churches'^. cor.7.,7.
N.C. Then you are jotimpofing. 33' 16.1,
C. I am for that which all men of
any difcrction think neceflary, -z/Zis.
that every body fhould not be left to
do according to their prefent humor
and fancy > when they come towor-
fhip God in the publick Affemblies.
Even the famous SmeBymnuus al-
lowed impofitions in fome cafes. For
they propound this as an expedient,
that, if it fliall appear any Minifter
proves infufEcient to difcharge the
duty of prayer in a conceived way,
it may be impofed on him as a punifli-
ment to ufe a fet form and no other^ , * Anfvverro
This was indeed a contrivance to dif- RemolS^^^^
gtace the Liturgy as if it were fit for ftrancep.14
no bodies ufe^but the duller & heavier
fort
'A Cmtimation of
fort of People: but yet it (hews their
judgment about impofingy which you
now complain of. And 1 would fain
know what they would have done with
fuch infufHcient perfons as had a
good opinion of their gifts; and
thinking themfelves wrong'd in being
condemned to the forenamed Pen-
nance, would not obey them : Would
they have forced them to obedience
or no? If not; their expedient fig-
nified nothing : If they would ; then
why ftiould not the Magiftrate do it
now, who knows that moft of thofe
who love liberty, have a better opini-
on of their own abilities than they
ought ?
N. C. We wifli the Common Pray-
er was left at liberty to be ufed or not,
as men found themfelves inclined.
C. Do you fo ? That's becaufe
you defpife it, and think it good for
little or nothing. But were there one
of your own Inventions to be eftabli-
flied, you would never leave us at Li-
berty, if you had power, tomakeufe
of it or let it alone. Nothing fliould
ftand
the Friendly Debate^. ^\ 3
ftand in competition with it : but
every thing elfe, as well as Common-
Prayer, fall before it, as Dagon be-
fore the Ark. Did not the Indepen-
dents incur your difpleafure for crav-
ing an allowance to order a few Chur-
ches after their own falhion ? Mr.
Dury)[{imk\iy 1 remember, a man of
peace and compofer of differences re-
folved their way was not to be toUe-
rated. For it would lay, faid he ,
^ the foundation of ftrife and Divi lion* ^PiOiohvy
tn the Kingdom to have two rvayes ofiu Licenied
Church Government : which may agree cra^ord
with fame Mat chiaviliany but no Chri-^^^y 27.
ftian Policy, Jnd therefore it will he
no wifdom in the State to yield to the
Suit of the five Brethren y except it he
induced thereunto hy the Neceffity of a-
voiding fome greater inconvenience,
than is the admitting of a feed of perpe-
tual Divijion within it felf, which is in
my apprehenfwn the greateft cf all other,
andmofi oppofiteto the Kingdom of
Chrift. '^ Now the lefs the caufe of
^' reparation is,the greater is the fault
;/ in thofe that make it, and the lefs
^^ caufe
AiA -A Contimation of
^' caufe the State hath to give way to
<* the making of it. You remember
therefore what Ordinances were made
for the electing of Elders : and that
all Pariflies and places whatfoever, as
Vfdilpriviledged and exempt juris di 511-
ons 04 others, fliould be brought un-
der the Government of Congregatio-
nal, Claffical, Provincial, and Na-
aordin.of tional Aflcmblies a. And this was
'^'^""^^^'according to their folemn promife of
fetling Uniformity ; which part cf the
Covenant, they faid ( if you will be-
lieve them ) was alwayes before their
hovdm.\^ eyes h. In purfuance of which alfo
^iSmble^* the City defired c that fame ftri6i and
^^^\^^(p£sdy courfe might he taken for thefup-
Petition, preffin^ of all private and feparated
May 26. ^^ '^^ ^ \ ^ * j ^i tt r r
1646. Longregaticns : And the rloule ot
Lords ordered the Printing of their
Petition ; which was grounded upon
"^Decemb. a Re7nonftrance ^ of the Houfe of
IS. 1642. (^Qj^jjrjons, *^ wherein they declared
*•' that it was far from their purpofe or
*^defiretolet loofethe golden rains
^^of Difcipline and Government in
[' the Church, or to leave private per-
^ ^ fons
the Friendly Debate. 415
''forts or particular Con^^regatiom to
*' take up what form of Divine Service
" they pleafe. As for the facred Cove- c^
nanty that Holy Ordinance ( as Mr.CW/i
calls it) and choice piece of Divine
Service; you know no man could be
aMinifter, or an Elder, no nor pra-
(flifeasan Attorney or Solicitor at
the Law, unlefs he took it: and the
refufal of it was generally made a
Mark of ungodlinefs ; as I will prove
when you pleafe.
AT. c I know not what reafons they
went by then.
C. The fame whereby they would
proceed now ; if they had the fame
power and the fame hopes. And fo
1 believe would the Independents too:
who are for impofing their own things
as much as they are able. For they
have invented, you muft know, a
Model and form of their own heads
which is not appointed in Holy Scrip-
pres. As firfly that the Members
muft be examined and give an account
bf the manner of their converfion
[which is in a certain Method and
Form
4 1 5 A Comimation of
Narration Form too in JSlew-Er^gland) and that
churn before the Church. Then, it is re-
courfesin quired that they enter into a Church-
N. England /. i . i . i /->
by w,R. Covenant y which is not the Covenant
out of 'their of grace, but diftindl from it : (For
STc^chrp'^ ^hey acknowledge a man may be
pag.i6. within the Covenant of Grace, who
is not in this , and one may be in
this, who is not in that. ) And yet
it is a Sacred not a Civil thing : which
muft be made publick before all the
Church, vocal and exprefs ; fo hind-
ing that none can be loofed from it
without the confent of the Church.
And then it is held ( at leaft by ma-
ny) that the Members mull: fr(?/7/?^j5',*-
i, e, exercife their gifts in and before
the whole Congregation, by preach-
ing, expounding, applying the Scrip-
ture : by inftrudlion , confutation ,
* which Reprehcnfion with all Authority ^.
an'ordi Now having dcvifed thefe things, to
peS^fn* name no more, I obferve that the Co-
^^^^^P^'^lf^venantmthc fame Church is in one
inMr. Cot- and the fame rormoi words, as well
tons Cate- i i r
chiiiTi. as matter; and therefore put into
writings and muft be r^^^ by the par-
the Friendly Debate] 417
tyto be admitted, or he muft hear
it read by fome other and give his Af-
fent to it. Here is not only a Form
of Holy Covenant ( a principle point
of worftiip as W, R. notes ) invented
by one or more men ; but impofed up-
on others, even as many as enter into
the Church ; and more than that, to
he read upon a Book, What is this
better, or how is it more lawful, than
a fet form of prayer ? efpecially fince
this Covenant is impofed as an Ordi-
nance of Gody and ahfolutely necejfary ;
fo as no Book-Prayer, I think, is f
i find alfo that by this Covenant, the
Members in fome places * were y^-*churchof
ftrained and tyed up from A^ewing ^^^^J^^jj'^j
their gifts in peaking or fcrupling ;
till they were called thereto ; that is,
they being allowed to prophefie pub-
lickly, and fo to propound queftions
and make objecStions ( which they call
Scrupling^ they bound them up in
this Covenant, which had the force of
Law, from doing it uncall'd. I
^^"Iwould fain know whether this be not
'^Ito limit the Spirit (as you fpeak)
^'" E e and
4i8 ^ ContinuMion of
and to ftint it to times, as you fay we
do it to words ? For if a man be never
fo full, he muft have no vent without
a call from the Church. And how I
pray you doth this difJer from an Ec-
clefiaftical Canon, as to its force and
obligation ; but only that it hath an-
other name ; and all old Canons muft
by lay'd afide, to make way for this
new Covenant. They tell us alfo
exprefly that the Magiftrate may
compel men to keep their Covenant;
nb.Narrati= though not to enter into it *. And
courfe"^^^ for fpreading of infedliousDodlrines,
cap. 15.' Mr. Wheelwright a Minifter, and Mrs.
Hut chin fon a pretended prophetefs,
were hanijhed the Countrey. Seve-
ral of their followers alfo were fome
imprifonedy iome fined, {omcdisfran-
ingsofthe chifed, Cottic haniJhcd, and oil di farm-
Simhoi- ^^> for petitioning the Court inbe-
Tmvn,^oa! ^^^f ^f Mr. Wheelwright and remon-
2. 1657. and ft rating with due fubmiflion ( fo
g>inde. their words were ) that they conc«iv-
poc'ecdi^led he defer ved no fuch cenfure^. A
BoftJn ^^ gfc^'^t many more remarkable things
i^i(i' ' there are in thatftory, which lean-
not
the Friendly Debate] '^'l p
not ftancj to recite. But muft pro-
ceed to tell you, that as for others
who are not of their way, there is juft
no liberty at all For as they will
not grant communion to members of
other Churches not conftituted as
they are ; fo if a company of approved
godly people ftiould fit down near
them ( where their power reaches )
differing from them only in fomc
points of Church Government ; fome
of them tell us, not only that they
fliall not he owned as afifier Church, hut
alfo he in danger of fevere puni(hment hy
the Civil Magijirate b. b mmtion
N. C. What is all this to our Inde- ^'* "?• '^•
pendents ?
C. They extol both the Men and
the wayes of New-England to the
Skyes : and therefore approve of them
Ifuppofe, not only as good,but as ex-
celling all other. The Men, they
fay, have teftified their fincerity to
all generations future by the greateft
undertaking, except that of our Fa-
ther Jhraham, viz, leaving this
Countrey to go thither , merely to
E c z wor-
42 A Continuation of
cApoioge- wprfliip God more purely c And as
tiS!,^i643.T^ their wayes and praSlices, they are
pVi' improved to a better Edition and great-
er refinement y than thofe of other Re-
s'*' formed Churches^, which ntiakesit
reafonable to believe, that when they
Covenanted to reform according to the
example of the heft Reformed Churches,
they had New-hngland in their eye,
as their pattern. For thofe General
e Beam of words,as Mr. Feak e rightly obferves,
^z^hV'^'leftit under fufpence and undetermined
which of the Reformed Churches had oh'
tained the higheft degree of Reformation.
The Scots and their Friends judged the
Kirk of Scotland the heft Reformed ;
the Dijfenting Brethren, approved the
Reformation of New-England to he
moft Excellent. But be this as it will,
we have learn't thus much from what
hath been related ; that the Churches
of 0, better Edition and greater refine-
ment, do not think it unlawful to ufe
forms in Gods holy Ordinances ; unto
which they hind thofe who come un-
der their Power; y^/r^/Wf;^ themal-
fo from opening their mouths, when
per-
the Friendly Debate. 4 2 I
perhaps they think themfclvcs full of
the Spirit ; and denying leave to o-
thers to fet up a different way from
theirs, in their Neighbourhood. As
for our Independents I can /hew from
their Books, that they think it necef-
fary to be as fevere in a great many
Cafes ; and I remember as heavy com-
plaints of them, as ever they made of
the Presbyterians : and have been told
that they daylyjpet their venome pri-
vately and puhlickly, again fi thofe that
feparatedfrom them a, &c. a vanity of
N,c. It will be too long to relateS^J/^t^^
all thofe things. But I would fainP-5-^«^"'
know how this will (land with Chri-
ftian Liberty ?
C. Do you think that it confifts
in being tyed to no Law at all ?
N.c. None but Gods.
C, Take heed what you fay.
J\f. c. In matters of worfhip , I
mean.
C. That's abfurd, as I have fliewn
you. Gods Law hath only given us
the general rules whereby things arc
to be ordered in the Church ; accord-
E e 3 ing
42 i ^A Continrntion oj
ingto which our Governors are to
make particular Laws, and we are to
obey them ; or elfe there will be no-
thing but confufion. Yet ftill our
Chrifiian Liberty remains; becaufe,
Firft, we are not tyed to this or that
pattern or Modelj, but our Governors
have liberty to eftablifh whatfoever
(being in itfelf indifferent) fhall
feem to them moft expedient for
maintaining comelinefs and Order.
And fecondly, when any orders are
cftablifhed, this is our Liberty (as
pur Divines teach you ) that we do
not ufe them as any part of Divine
Worfhip ( as fome of you do ) nor
as meritorious and fatisfadlory, nor
as neceflary to juftification or falva-
tion, but only for difcipUne and good
Orders fake. And Ufily, by confe-
quence the fame Authority may alter
them, and hath not fo tyed up it fclf
to them, but that it is at liberty to
abolifli thofe, in cafe of inconveni-
ence arifing, and eftablifli others in
the room. But fuch a Liberty as
leaves men loofe from all Laws and
Orders,
the Friendly Debate , 42}
Orders, fave thofe that they fhall
chufe themfclves, is a wild fancy
which^(?«r Minifters condemn as well
as ours, Mr. Duty for inftance, (a ve«
ry moderate Presbyterian ) tells the
Independent Brethren, We mufl ex-
feB nofuch Liberty at Jhall break the
Bond of Spiritual Unity, which by the
allowance of a puhlick tolleration of a
different Church Government, may be
occafioned. To keep therefore Unity in-
tire a few muft yield unto many, except
they can fairly perfwade thofe many to
yield to them a . a Epiftoiary
N, c. But what if they cannot ^^'.7/5'
agree ?
C. I was going to tell you. If they
cannot agree, it ujuli they floould forfeit
their Spiritual right and liberty which
Chrijl hath conferred upon them, and
fall under the Arbitriment of the Secu-
lar Power, which ought to look unto its
own fafety, left thofe that make Diviji-
ons and multiply Breaches in the Church
about fmall matters, difturb alfo by that
means the puhlick peace of the State b ► bib. 0.24-
Of this mind alfo was Mr, John Cotton
Ee4 (a
424 'A Cmmmtion of
C a mild Independent ) Good Kittys,
^ ^P^^^^j^^ faith he c, ought fo put upon their peo-
V. io.pag pie wholfome Laws and fir ait binding
^' to the purity of Religion, and the Wor-
Jhip^of God. It U no impeachment to
their Chriftian Liberty , cu the jinabap-
tifls dote, but an ornament to their
beauty, making their necks comely a4
with chains of Gold. And a little af-
d ib.ure 3.ter d , ItU no impeachment ofChriflian
Liberty to bow to Chrifiian Laws : Tea,
it if the beauty of a Chriftian Church to
wear thofe chains, thofe Laws, which
were made for the good of the Churchy
and it was their prophane^ and rebellion
that fay ; Let us break their bands afun-
der, and ca({ away their cords from us.
M C. He fpeaks of thofe purer
Laws which they found out, not fueh
as yours.
C. It's as much to my purpofe if he
did; for it proves he would have the
people ftriBly tyed to Laws and wear
thefe chains alwayes about their
necks; and our Governors think theirs
as good as any, and fo may as inno-
cently bind wxn fall to them, as you
the Friendly Deflate. 4 2 y
ty them to yours. And let me tell
you, both Presbyterians and hdepen-
dents would have their Orders fo
ftricft, that their people ftiould not
be allowed the liberty of going to hear
where they pleafe. Mr. Edwards a , a cangr^a
1 remember, in his Catalogue of Er- \_fZr'x^?'
rors, Herefies and Blafphemks, puts
down this for one. That it is part of
mens Chriflian Liberty, not to hear their
own Minifiers, but to go and hear where
they willy and whom they think they may
profit mofl by. And the New England
Churches condemned thofe that faid b, b catalogue
if a man think he may edify better in an- nlj^^coni*
other Congregation than in hu own, that demn^d by
7 ^ , , .. .t anAHembly
U ground enough to depart ordtnartly, ofthcchur-
from Wordy Seals, &c. notwithftanding ti^j^^rov,
the offence of the Church, often manifeft- ^°'
ed to him for fo doing.
N.c. But why fhould there be any
penalties?
c. You may as well ask me over
again, why any Laws? which will be
ridiculous without them. But I won-
der you are not afliamed to fpeak a-
gainft penalties and force,who prefTed
the
i^25 A Continuation of
the Covenant with more feverity, than
ever any body did Conformity, What
crofncj^isthis { tis the Bifhop of Don>n
. . faid c ) that whenweprej^ men to con-
speech ^t form to the Orders of our Church, they
iT^^k ^li^^g it is contrary to Chriftian Liberty
^^38. fQ in force men to the doing of any thing
againft,therr Confcience, and that a man
foould he fully refolved in his own mind
of the Lavpfulnejsofthat which he doth ;
and yet we urge that only under pain of
fujpenjion and excommunication, and
that after much patience and forbear-
ance, ufng all fair means to per fwade
them : But they compel men tofubfcribe
the Covenant againft their Confcience by
Pike and Fiftol ; threatning no lefithan
lo(i of life, or goods and Lands in cafe
cf refufal ? By this we may judg of their
fincerity and what they would do in other
things, had they Tower in their hands.
The truth is one could fcarce live a-
rnong you when you had power ; for
all that would not take the Covenant
were held to be Malignant s ,^116. if you
know not what was to be done with
theai^an eminent perfon will tell you.
lY.c.Who
the Friendly Debate. j^z'j
iV. c. Who do you mean ?
c. Do you not remember who it
was that complemented the Parlia-
ment as the keepers of our Vineyardy and
commended them for being wanting
in nothing to their duty
N.C. What then?
C. You (hall hear. He faith they
had endeavoured to f<?f;c^ ^/^^ Vineyard
with a fetled Militia, and then toga-
t her out the Malignant s as [tones, and
to make a Wineprefi therein for the
fqueezing of Delinquents a
N. C, i know not who this was. before the
C. rie be fo civil to his Memory as the^om^^^
to let this pafs without naming him.^"'/^^^^;,
But he was one of thofe you call a
moderate Presbyterian, by which we
may know what mind the Zealots are
of. And as for the Independents, they
were for an exaB and thorough Refor-
mation too ( for that which they were
about had coft God dear, they faid,
and he would not lay outfo much for an
imperfeift, poor and low reformation)
and therefore exhorted the Parlia-
ment not to fpare the lalli to effedt it:
but
426 A Cominmtion of
but do as Jefus Chrifl did when he
came to purge the Temple ; not only
chide the money changers ^ hut whip them
away , and overthrow the "very tables,
lefl they fhould recover their Trade a-
EridaJser- &^^^ ^- Which othcrs delivered in
morfbcfore fhis phrafe, Dagon is begun to fall he-
mons, ^oy.fore the jirk ; his head is off; but let
2X\sV'^'^ot fo much as the jium^ remain ; 1. e.
give no liberty to thefe Church of
England men ; let them not enjoy the
leaft relick of their worfhip. And
accordingly you know, I fhew'd you
the laft time, there was an Ordinance
prohibiting the ufe of Common-pray-
er under great penalties in any prl-
cp n8 ^^^^ family , not excepting the
of Friendly Kings C .
•^Uk! N. C. I remember it ; and fome
• fay it was an unworthy Conftrudlion
you make of the words ; there was
no fuch intention.
C. They had better have held their
tongues, for I (hall prove it to pur-
pofc. When Commiflloners were
fent down to treat with his Majefty
at the IJle of Wight, he was content,as
he
the Friendly Debate] 429
he had expreflfed himfelf before^M^y
12. that the worfliip of God Ihouid be
performed according to the DireBory
for three years : provided only that
his Majefty^and thofe of his judgment
who could not in Confcience fub-
mit thereunto, might not be obliged
to it,but left free to their own way a, ^ ^j^-j^^^^
But this would not be granted ; for septemb.
you muft know that though the Par- ^^' * "^ *
liament had Ordained h ; the Chap- ^ ordin.of
pels or places in theHoufes of thc^^^^<^»4-
King and his Children fhould continue ' '^'^'
free for the exercife of divine duties
without any Elders ; yet this was no
more than they allowed to every
Peer in the Realm, and thofe Duties^
alfo rvere to he performed according to
the DireBory, and not other wife. And
therefore 1 find his Majefly was fain
for the fatisfaBion of the two Houfes
(fo his words are) to make a further
conceffion , and to profefs he would
not infift upon any provifion for con-
tinuance of the ufe of the Book of
Common -prayer in his QjM[ajefiies
Chappel for himfelf and his houjhold :
never.
Qj.50 A Cominmtim of
neverthelefs he declared he intended
to ufe feme other fet Form of Divine
c This was Service c But nothing would fatis-
4. N^ovemb.|^^^ unlefs he would do according to
the Directory ; they would not allow
a Set Form in his own Houfe: no,
though he declared , in a further ex-
plication of his mind, that he could
not with a good Confcience commu-
nicate in a publick Form of Divine
Service and Adminiftration of Sa-
craments, where it is wholly uncer-
tain what the Minifter will fay to
God : and told them he hoped they
would think it reafonable to offer any
violence to the confcience of their Sove-
a Novemb. rai^n. For in their anfwer d ; they
tell him twice , though they would
not force his confcience y yetdefire it
may be informed and reilifyed, that
fo it might agree with theirs , who
were his great Council : that is,
they would not call it by that name ;
but he muft either agree to them, or
be as he was : And fo in fine he was
Novfl^ content to wave even a Set Form ^:
Do you not fee now , how we were
deceiv-
the Friendly Debate^. 431
deceived by this word Liberty ; and
that the King himfelf could have no
benefit of itr^ Had you not a great
care of tender Confciences, and were
exceeding nice in prefling men to
that wherein they were not fully fa-
tisfied ? Certainly his Majefty had
reafon to fay /, If it be Liberty of con- ^ ^^^^^ ^
fcience they defire, he who wants it y is J^n, 18.* af-
moft ready to give it. And what donJaTckef^
you think of his Majefties earneft^^^'
defire to have fome of his Chaplaines
attend him a ? Was it not barbarous a which he
to deliberate one moment whether itjljf^y \^^
ftiould be allowed or no; efpecially^^^^.
by thofe who cryed up Liberty fo
much ? And yet he was fain to re-
new his Meflage to them the next
month b y and to reprefent the necef-bj^^j^g,
fity of it , for the guidance of his
Confcience. But ftill they ftopt
their eares to his dcfires ; for in his
Anfwers to their Propofitions c , hecMayiz, {
refpites his Anfwer to what concern- ^^'^7*
cd the Covenant, becaufe he could
not give a refolution in a matter of
Confcience, till he might be afliftei
with
1
432 A Contimatm of
with the advice of fome of his own
Chaplains , which had hitherto been
denyed him. Nay, when he was at
d Mcfl^cre f^^^^^^^o^^ ^ y I find him complaining
of Augwo. that he had none about him (except a
'^ * Barbar which came down with the
Commifjioners) that he ever named to
wait upon him. ji piece of rigor and
harharifm greater than is ever ufed by
Chriflians to the meaneftpr if oners and
eicon-Bam.greatefi MalefaSlors e, &c.
A^ C, I know the words. But what
is this to penalties ?
C You led me out of the way; and
yet not altogether , for you may fee
by this that Chriftian Liberty is but a
Phrafe and fignifies nothing,whcn any
but your felves challenges the bene-
fit of it. But if you would hear any
more of the other, I muft: tell you
the Independents were for fome punifh-
ments though more mild than yours.
For which I muft refer you to Mr.
i^^^e!d^^jBurYoughs f {tinA not ftay to recite
his words at length) who tells you
men may be reftrained by Violence from
publifliing grofs Errors, notwith-
ftand
the Friendly Debate] ^^j
{landing their plea of Confcience:and
thatyiw^ trouble may be laid in their
way who hold Errors of lefs moment,
fofar as to take off the vpantonnefs of
their fpirits and negle£t of means. Nay,
where men by their iveaknefs render
themfelves lefs ferviceabie to the
Commonwealth or Church, he faith,
they may hs dsnyed fome priviledgef
granted to others : of which he gives
youinftances.
N,a What? No refpedl to ten-
der Confciences ?
C. Yes. But if a man he proud and
turbulent in his carriage and defpife hii
betters , the fame Perfon tells you,
you may be fur e the Devil is in his wiU,
rather than in his Confcience. *^ For
"though an erroneous confcience
'< may caufe one to hold faft anError,
" it doth not put him upon proud,
*^ fcornful and turbulent behaviour.
^* When a man by reafon of his Con-
fcience (it may be the weaknefs of
*' it) differs from his Brethren , he
" had need carry himfelf with all hu-
[^ mility and meeknefs , and felf de-
Ff niall
4^4 -^ Continuation of
j..^ ^^niall in all things. Hefhould be
c^ifder *^ willing to be a fervant to every man
youfoTiol '* in wh^t lawfully he may : that
this Rule, ^< thereby hemayftiew to all, that it
who are fo ^ . /. • //• / /^ i
perempto- " IS not trom any wufulnejSy but meer-
pro^udAc. '* ly tenderneJ^o( his Confcience, that
^' he cannot come ofF to that, which
'^ his Brethren can do ; whom yet he
*^ reverences, and in his carriage to-
^^ wards them fliews , that he efteems
^^them his betters. But if a man
^^ that is weak , very much beneath
'^others in Parts and Graces (he
*' might have faid any one that dif-
'^fents from the Generality of Chri-
<^ftians, and his Governours where
'^ he lives) fliall carry himfelf high,
^' imperious , contemning and vilify-
" ing thofe who differ from him , and
*^ be contentious with them , there is
*' great reafon to think the corrupti-
*^on is in the will, rather than any
'* where elfe. Andiftherefliouldbe
^^ fome confcience yet in thofe men,
^^ their heart dtflempers may juftly for-
*<feit their right of pleading their con-
*'fci€ncj, Thofe who oppofe them if
"they
the Friendly Debate] 43 j \
'^ they do it in a Chriftian way, nay
*'juftifie what they do before God,
*^ and fay to him, when he calls them
'' to an account for their dealing fo
'* with thofc that profefled Confci-
*'ence; Lord, we were willing to
** have dealt with them inalltender-
*^ ncfs, if we could have feen confci-
'^entioufnefs in their carriage; But
Tvefaw nothing hut fcornfulnefsy pride,
impertoufnefst turhulency, conceitednef?,
tve could fie nothing of the Spirit ofje-
fu4 Chrijl aBing them in their ivay'^,&cc»*Youmiy
Thus he alfo refolves this quefl:ion,J^'^^f^|;j?^"*
Hoip /hall we know a man to he ohftinate,^^^^^^'
when he oppofes the judgment of many '^
more godly and learned than himfelf^
i.If heoppofethe common principles
of Chriltianity. 2. If in other mat-
ters his carriage be turbulent and al-
together unbefecming a Chriftian,
differing from his Brethren. 3. Where
ithere is negleift of thofe means of In-
formation , which he hath nothing
to fay againft. Laftly, ]fhe fo crop
\his own principles , that he appear to he ,
felf condemned'^. Think, I befeech ^
F f 2 you.
43 tf A Continuation of
you , whether this be not your cafe.
i\7". C, 1 have a number of things to
fay , but I fee you arc in haft, and
therefore will let them alone.
C. You may propound them fome
other time> if upon confideration of
thefe things you be not fatisfied. And
to fave you and my felf any further
labour , I fhall commend a few Di-
redlions to you for the guiding of
your confcience, and fo conclude.
A^. C. Let's hear them.
G. I cannot expedl you fliould
bear any refpeCl: to my Advice; there-
fore I will fpeak to you in another
mans words ; which are fo good, that
it's pitty they fliould be forgot. They
were writ above threefcore years ago
by Mr. Rich, Bernard , in a Book of
his, where he teaches you how to car-
ry your felf in a Church or State, fo
as that you may feek the publick
quiet of it*.
N.C How I pray you? Ileftudy
kdvSf hiscounfels.
mentsand Q *^ Firft , maintain and uphold
Counlels of , , , . . r n i i • •
pwce,iM."all that jis manireltly good m it.
iJf
the Friendly Debate. 437
'^2. If there be any manifefl: evils,
^^ labour in your place by the bcft
^^ means to have them amended
** peaceably. 3. Bear with lighter
** faults For a time till a fit occafion
^^be oflfered to have them amended.
^'4. As for likelihoods of evil make
** them not apparent evil by ill inter-
'^ pretation ; where neither the State
*^ intends it, nor fo maintains it.
'^ 5. Take doubtful things ever in
^^the better part. 6, Judicioufly
*' difcern between the abufc of a thing
^^ and that which may be well ufed :
*^ left in abhorring the ahufe , thou
'^ alfo do utterly condemn the thing
'^ it felf and the ufe thereof 7.Let not
^' theflourifliing condition (as thou
^^ fancieft it ) of any Forain Church
'* or State, make thee unthankful for
^^ the prefent good thou enjoyeft at
^* home , and loath thine own happi-
''nefs. 8. Mark and hold the dif*-
^^ ference between thefe things ; the
^^ Equity of Law and the Execution;
^' the truth Generally eftabliflied and
'^profefled, and the perfonal Errors
Ff3 ^fof
A7Z -« Continuation oj
'*of fome. Between foundnefs of
** Dodlrine and bad Application ; be-
^^ tween fubftance and circumftance ;
*' between the very being of a thing,
^^ and the well being of it ; between
'' what is neceffary and what is only
^^ convenient and defirable ; between
*^ a Commandment andaCommand-
^' ment to thee ; between what is
^* lawful and what is expedient.p.Ne-
'* ver prefume to reform others,before
^^thou haft well ordered thy felf.
'^ lo. Do not difobey the evident
'^commandment of God : and when
'^ there is nothing but probability
^^ of finning in obeying the precept
^' of thy Governors, donotfetopinl-
'^ on before judgmxnt. Set afide fan-
^'cy, and do notrefufcto obey Au-
"thority, where it is notpLtiji thoa
'^fhalt fin againft God. Bg more
*^ loth to offend a lawful Magiftrate
0;^ ** than many private perfons,
' *^ Where thou canft not yield, there
^^ humbly crave pardon. Where
^^ thou canft not be tollerated , be
^^ contented with Corredtion for fafe-
'' ty
i
the Friendly Debate. 439
" ty of Confcience : and bear what
^' thou canft not avoid, with a patient
*' mind. Remember that to ftand
^^ more upon avoiding diflike in pri-
'^ vate pcrfons, than in offending the
^' publick authority, is no better than "^
'^an humouring of men to increafe
^^difcontentednefs, rather than to
^^ prefcrvc the publick peace and wel-
^^ fare. Nay/it is better to crofs fome
'^ mens affe(5lions without fin toGod,
^' than to negledl moft certain Duty,
" let people perifli, open a gap to the
^' enemy, lofe thy liberty, and no
'^whit better the Church of God.
N. C. O but in this we muft be
very tender , and difobey men rather
than God.
C. You fliould be very tender and
careful left you diCdbey both : by
breaking the commands of your Go-
vernors, when in fo doing you follow
no command of God. For which
end he gives you this Rule. -As thou
'^mayftnotout of policy for fear of
^^ trouble , furnifli thy felf with di-
^^ftindlions and evade thy duty,
F f 4 [[ where
44 o -^ Continuation of
" where the word is plain : fo thou
^' oughteft not out of fcrupulofity to
*^ imagine fin where there is none,
^'and trouble thy Confcience with
^*fear of tranfgrcfling , where there
'^ is no Law. The one breeds ^theifm,
^' the other is the mother of Superfii-
'^ ^/W.Therefore in indifferent things
'^make no queftion for confcience
^^ fake : fo it be that neither holinefs,
'^ merit, nor neceflity be put therein,
^' nor ufed for any part of Gods wor-
** fhip, but for Decency, Order and E-
^^dification.
N,C. But what if I am in doubt;
and afraid to ufe thefe things you call
indifferent ?
C.In this cafe he hath given you fuch
good Directions that I need feek fcr
no other. '* The fubftance of them
*^ is this. You would do well to ex-
'^ amine your felf whence yourDoubt
^'arifes, whether from ferious confi-
*' deration and a judgment convin-
'^ced; or thatitbeonlyanicenefsof
*' diflike , coming from a defire not
^^ to be troubled with them , or for
^' that
the Friendly Debate. 44 i
''that thou haft not been ufed to
"them , or becaufe fome cannot
** away with them, or from Ignorance
** and want of knowledge, or perhaps
**from a godly jealoufie and fear of
** doing amifs (I may add from ana-
** tural timoroufncfs and uncertainty
** of mind which can refolve nothing.)
'*If the ground be not a judgement
^'inlightned and convinced, it is not
^* trouble of confcience, but a diflike
'' that works difcontcntednefs upon
*^ fome of the former grounds ; which
*' muft be removed by confideration
" and fetling your judgment upon
''the Word of God and found Rea-
"fon. Nay, it will be fittoconfi-
*^ der, whether this doubting do not
*' arife through your own default, by
"looking out Reafons to increafe ^
"your diflike, and neglecfl-ing to
"fearch for Arguments to give you
" fatisfacflion If this be your Cafe,
'' as it is certain it is of too many,
'^take as great pains to refolve your
" felf as you have done to bring your
^^ felf into doubting ; elfc you deal
'' but
44 2 ^ Continuation of
^^ h^t partially. And have a care you
*j, be not too highly conceited of your
^^felf, and look upon your own rea-
^'fons through the vapour of affc'
^^dlion.
N. C. My fcruples are- grounded
upon this reafon ; that to make a
thing lawful in Gods worfhip, it is
not enough that it is not forbidden
but it muft be commanded.
C. Examine well without preju-
dice what our Divines have replyed
an hundred times to this , and you
will find it an abfurd Principle. Or
for the prefent onely weigh what he
faith , *^ Why fliould a man be more
'^fcrupulous to leek to have a plain
'^ command for every thing he doth in
^^ Ecclefiaftical matters , even about
^^ things in themfelves indifferent,
^^ than about matters politick in Ci-
^' vil affairs ? Men in thefe matters
*^know not the ground nor end of
*^^many things which they yield
^^ unto , upon a General command
*^ to obey Authority ; and knowing
^^them not to be direcStly againft
^^Gods
the Friendly Debate. ^^a
** Gods will. And yet our obedience
'' in all Civil matters muft be^r// of
**Confciencc , ^nd , fecondij/y as fer-
*^ving the Lord; which cannot be
^' without knowledge and perfwafion
^^ that we do well even w that particu-
<^ lar in which we obey : which men
^^ ufually for confcience fake inquire
^' not into y but reft themfelves vpuh
^' a General comynnndment of obeying
*' lawful Authority, fo it be not a-
^* gainrt a plain commandment of
^'God. What therefore doth let,
^' but that a man may fo fatisHe him-
^'felf in matters Ecclefiafticall ? I
*^muft tell you (faith he) that the
'' curious fearching fo particularly in-
^' to every thing to have full fatis-
^^fadl:ion, hath fo wrought inthefe
^' days upon mens wits to bring di-
^'ftincftions ; that the more men feek
"in doubt for rcfolution , the fur-
'^ ther they arc from it.
N. C What fhall a man do
then ?
C. He muft obferve thefe Rules of
that Good man. i. *' Keep all main
'' Truths,
rCO
444 ^ Contimation of
'^Truths, which are moft plainly
'^ fet down in the Word , or by the
'* Law of Nature ingraven on every
'^mans heart. 2. Believe every
" thing truly and neceflarily gather-
''cd, by an immediate confequence
*'from the Text. 3. Follow evi-
" dent examples fit for him cither as
*'a Chriflian, or his fpecial calling
*^ requires. 4. Avoid that which is
^' plainly forbidden , or follows ne-
ceflarily by an immediate confe-
quence. 5". Follow true Antiqui-
ty and the General pradtice of the
^' Church of God in all ages , where
^' theyhave not erred from the evident
'' Truth of God. 6. If thou fufier-
*^ eft ( faith he ) let it be for known
" Truth and againft known wicked-
''nefs; for which thou haft example
^^ in Gods word, or of the holy Mar-
^^ tyrs in Church ftory : But beware
^^offarfetcht confequenceSj orof fuf-
'^fcring for new devices, and for
'^ things formerly unto all Ages un-
*^ known , feem they never fo holy
'^andjuft unto man.
iV-.C. But
the Friendly Debate ] 44 r
A^. C. But what if the thing com-
manded feem to me a fin ?
c. '*Heanfwers, fome things fin*
'^ fully commanded may be obeyed
"^^ without fin, as J(!?^^ obeyed David
** in numbering the People. Secondly,
** Confider, how dofl: thou conceive
" it to be fin ? Is it [imply fo ? Shew
'^ me the Prohibition ; elfe where no
'^ haw is there is no transgrejjion. Or
" is it fo accidentally ? that is, in the
*' abufe, which may be removed ; or
^'inrefpecft of the Ignorance of the
"Lawfulnefs, making thee to doubt
*^ and fear to offend ^ life all dili-
^^ gence for refolution. * And if it be
" not a known fin to thee certainly
** but only by probability ; confider,
*' whether probability of finning may
^' give thee a fufficient difchargefor
** not obeying a plain Precept, and to
" neglecft neceflary Duties otherwife,
*^ both to God and man.
N^.C, Would you have me do
things while I am full of fcruples v^e-
ther 1 may or no ? Doth not the Scrip-
ture fay whatfoever is not of Faith is
fw^ Rom. 14.25. C.Hc
445 A Contimation of
C. He tak^s no notice of that place;
But fince you mention it Tie give you
Mr. John an Anfwcr, not from my felf, whofe
lucionof judgment you value not much, but
i^cenferby ftom a Divine who, we are told, fuf-
^rd^T64f. ^i^cd much under the Bifhops. Things
wherein doubts arife, faith he, are of
a double Nature. Firft, '^ fuch as are
^' merely drhitrary and at my own dif-
"pofe. Thefe may be left undone
^' without fcruple, but not done with
^^ it ; bccaufe the inconvenience of
'' Omiffion is but a little felffufFer-
'^ ing. Suchare the things the Apo-
^^ftie fpeaks of; forbearing theufe
^^ of our Liberty in eating flefh,or the
^' like cafe. If a man doubt whether
'^ he may do that, or whether he may
*^ play at Tables or Cardsjthe omiffi-
*^'on here being no more but only de-
^' nying our felves a little contcnt,the
*' doubt fliould make a man forbear.
^' But then there are other things that
"are not arbitrary but under a com-
"-^mi^nd , as coming to the Sacr-ament,
"' obedience to the higher powers in
" things lawfuL Now if fcruples arife
^* about
the Friendly Debate. 447
^' about thefe, and a man doubts he
*^ lins if he a5i, and he alfo doubts he
** fins ii' he forbear ; it is neither clear
*^that the thing to be done is finful,
'' and fo to be forborn, nor perfecflly
^^ clear that it is a duty and foto be
*^ done : h thU cafe he muft weigh the
^^ Scales ; and where the Soul apprehends
^^ mo ft weight ofreafon, that way he muft
*' incline ; though the other fcale be not
*^ altogether empty. And this done after
'^ humble and diligent fearch, with
^* bewailing our infirmity that we are
*^ no more difcerning, will be accep-
'^ ted of God. God puts not his people
^^ on necejjity of (inning ; nor can our
*^ fcruples dijpenfe with hfs commands.
N. C. Sometime I think this is
clear and folid Reafon ; but many
Friends think otherwife, and I am
loth to ofifend them by doirxg thefe
things which our Governors require.
C. But confider, '^ Firft, they may
*'take oflfence when none is given, Bem.coun-
'' and then the fault is their own, and ^^^^^^^^^
^' you not chargable therewith. Se-
*^ condly, the Queftion is whether they
^'be
ij.48 ^ CmtimiUm of
^^ be offended in refpc(5l of what them-
^^ felves know, or but led by afiedti-
'*on, diflikingof other mens diflike.
^' Intreat the former to let thee a-
'^ bound, for fuch things, in thy own
'* fenfe ; and fhew them that herein
'"^you may Brotherly difagree: for
^* the latter, inform their judgment,
^^ if they will yield to reafon : If not,
^^then confider. Thirdly, whether
*^^ thou art bound to nourifli up fuch
^^ men in their folly and to refpe(5l
^' their partial affedlion ; being more
*^ carried away with an overweening
^^of fome mens perfons, than any
^^ thing at all with the right under-
^'ftanding of the caufe. And then,
^' Fourthly y confider the power of the
. ^< Magiftrate and whether his Autho-
^^ rity commanding do not take away
^'theofTence which might otherwife
'* be given by a voluntary AcH:. And,
^^ Lajtly, that a man fliould not ftand
*^ more upon avoiding diflike in pri-
^* vate perfons, than offence to pub-
*< lick Authority ; as I faid before.
But alas ! as he faith at the end of
his
the Friendly Debate. '449
his Book*, '^Charity and fuch like , heparan,
'•^ graces are far to feek now adaies.^chirmad
" Men on all hands judg of things per- the"othe?
'^vcrfly. This they will allow, and^' '^^'
'^that again homouroufly they will
^' not like. That which may be juftly
" done well without oflfence, thereat
•'will others be unjuftly offended.
*' Things doubtful, men take Hnifter-
** ly ; yea they dare cenfure what they
'* never faw : condemn as ill, what
" they knew not : fufpedl where they
*^ have n*o caufe : gain-fay, where
*^ there ought to be no contradicflion,
'* partial to themfelves and rigorous
•'toward others. Authority will rule
*' thus and fo, Subjedts will obey with
"Exceptions. Judgment from the
*' word is not fo much a Guide, as will
*' and affe(5lion in too many are made
*< Matters. Thcfe be ill dayes and
** contentious : unhappy times , in
'* which men either will do, that they
'" will do of themfelves ; or elfe fall
" to humour parties ( not {imply re-
*' ceiving a love of the truth for the
G g ^^ truths
2,^0 A Cmtinmtion of
*' truths^ fake ) and fo come to per-
''takings, which doth but increafe
*' contention, till all come to confu-
*'fion: except the Lord in his great
'* mercy prevent the fame.
N. C. And turn us all to a more
moderate courfe, and there keep us.
C. You have read the Book : for
thofe are the words that follow.
N, C. No. But I think there is
much of truth in what he fayes: and
it had been well if his Counfels had
been then followed. •
C. Alas ! they who were chiefly
concerned in them, were fo far from
following them, that they took no
farther notice of them than only to
revile him that wrote them.
i\r. ^. Me thinks none /hould be fo
bruitifli.
C, It is as I tell you. Mr. Ainf-
vfiOYth making an anfwer to this Book,
wholly omitted theft Counfels ofPeaccy
fave only that he once mentioned
them, with this haughty ctn{\xxG,that
perhaps the Author knew no more than
Caiphas
the Friendly Dehu , 4SL
Caiphas n>h^t hefaid. Such men will
not grant us able to fay any good
thing -.
Iv, c. But this was an acknowledg-
ment the things were obfervable.
C. True, but you fee the men of
that Spirit will not regard excellent
things, iftheybefaid by thofcwhom
they do not love. Mr. Bernard in his
reply I think hath given a true defcrip- preface to
tion of them. Schifmaticks are head- f^^^^^^^
fironjs^t they will not fee evident conviBi- Anfwer to
on. Self-love makes them judge the hefi fpeech si
ofthemfelvesy hut their want of Charity y^'^^f^^
very badly of others, they beguile ^^^^"b'^uJho!^
f elves withjhews of Piety, heat ofaffe^i- rity. 1610.
on, and with a ftrong apprehenfion of
things greatly ami(^ in others, thefe
they can fee with both eyes, themfelves
with neither. Our arguments againfl
them are Paper floot : but their weakefl
reafons againfi wi ( if themfelves may
judg ) are /hot of Cannon, They dejpife
every mans endeavour againfl them, and
larein admiration of their own works,
^Let any man confer with them, and he
G g 2 Shall
452 A Continuation of
/hall hear it: I my felfhave fujficient
experience of it. jill oppofing their tvay,
are men, in their judgment, that haut
no grace, reheUious againft the Light,
They are prefumptuous in cenfuring ; and
may give fentence againft all men and
all Churches in the World ; hut none may
give judgment of them. I heartily wifh
you all lejs pride and more humtlity ;
lefsdijlike of others, and more charity,
with greater dijlike of your felves : the
want whereof U the prefent enemy to
lovely Unity y that ever accompanies true
Piety ; which many pretend, but few
truly enjoy. And fo farewell.
N.c. Do you hear? pray come
back.
c. Will you never have done?
what's the matter now ?
iV. C, I have but one word more.
Yo'i muft not pafs too hard a cenfure
upon fome Minifters who come not
to Church. You know they cannot
appear openly becaufe ofthe Acft
which forbids them to be in Cities,
Market-Towns, SJ'c.
C.And
the Friendly Debate^. 4"^ j
C. And yet they are there notwith-
{landing that Adt, and kept meetings
againft another Aifl which was lately
in force. Why may they not appear
any where in thofe places as well as
in one ? In God's houfe as well as
their own or yours ? In the face of all
the people, as well as before a party
feparatcd from the reft ? You are a
fine Advocate indeed : who now have
confeffed they are more afraid of the
punijhment (whatfoever they fay)
than of the Sin of difohedience. For
they break the Law wherefoever they
are in thofe prohibited Cities or
Towns> and they would but break it, ^
if they were at Church : only it would
be lefs
N, C, I will ftay you no longer.
I did not think of this, when the other
came into my mind.
C. I believe it. You are not wont
to lay things together, and then
fearch them to the bottom. But you
think as you talk ; fuddenly, in a
rambling manner, without any cohe-
G g 5 rence :
^ ^|4 A Continuation of
rence: which would never trouble
me at all ( you may think and fpeak
as you pleafe ) if you were not fo con-
ceited of your felves, as if you were
the moft knowing people, that muft
give Law and Religion to all others.
M C. There are thofe can talk as
well as you.
C No doubt of it. Let them there-
fore endeavour to mend the reft. And
remember them of fuch paflages as
thefe in your Books, which once they
allowed of. No man endued with right
. *i u c ^ r Re a f on , hut mil Cay
An Alarm by wav or Anlwcr to •' , ' J y
the laft warning piece, p. 15, Li- there u d necefjity of a
cenfedbyMr.John DcAvnain, with ^^ -r- r
this fentence pri-fixed. Ye fliall LtOVemment I if Of a
have one Ordinance, both for r'^rT,^*^^^^^.^* *L»^ ^^ ^ ^
the ftranger, and for him that is Ciovernment, then of an
bommtheund. Uniformity y elfeitmli
he confufed. Therefore there if anecefji-
ty to Pppreji all CONVENTI-
CLES; and that all men jhould oh-
ferve fuch Order, Time, Flace, and
ptihlick Gefturey as the Farli^ment
( hy the Advice of the jiffembly ) jhall
appoint. And no man that hath any
ufeof Conference in any thing but will:
acknoW'
the Friendly Debate. 45T
acknowledge he u hound in Confcience to
obey the Laws of the Land in which he
lives, in all indifferent things : Or he
u turbulent and deferves cenfure, even
for matters concerning Worfinp^ He
that hath the ufe of Confcience^ will
muke Confcience of the duties of both Ta-
bles, 04 well as one, there is doubt-
le(ia Confcience towards God, and a
Confcience towards man \ This was the
Apoftlespra^ice, and muft be our Rule,
Adl. 24. 16. lexercife my f elf to have
alwayes a Confcience void of offence, to*
ward God and toward Men. Once
more Farewel.
N.C. I thank you.
THE E^HJ).^
E RR J T A
PAgc p<5. Line 1$. dtlt but, p. 2(58. 1. 4.r. to
he condemned, p. 2.82. 1. penult, dele toUch,
p.288.1.ult.r./w<i»w^r/. p. 322. 1. 22. r. metbinki.
^»'^xiA,'],T, ferijhed» p. 341. 1. 15. fork r. 1/. p,
362. 1.20. t,to vahicb* p, i<i8» 1. p. r. be* p, 430,
ERR J T J.
PAge 21. line ip. r. their offence, p. 21. 1. 23. r. for nuant p.jg. 1
1. 21. r. / conjider. p. 34. 1. 1. r. w«t^. p. sd. 1. 10. r. couJd»
p. 6"!. 1. 20. r. ri^wV makers, p. 71. 1. 25. r. confBs. p. 78. 1. 17.
r.jpread before you. p. 20(5* 1. 23. dele c/»//. p.2ip. 1. 7. for^^o«t
r. /i^^w. p. 250. 1. 1^. r. ««/^ tell us, p. 254. 1. 8. r, bring, p. 27P«
I. p. r.underBanding, p. 282. 1. ult.r,^«i. p. 287. 1. 5. Marg, r.
id37. P* 2.8p. 1. 24. r. ApoSlk,^. 2p8. 1. 6, r. t% ^/i^/^t. p. 313.
!.2i.a4<i, o«r. p. 335. 1. 5. r. <ro»rff«tw«j.p. 3(55. 1. 11. r,prefacer»
p, 382. 1. 23. r. prefacer, p. 405« !• 13. r. '»^9 *i5'^7^* P* 424, !• i6*
r. that fay.
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